97 Yr old Gran waiting 8 hours for an ambulance with a broken hip!

Oh I see, it’s one of those posts. 🙄🙄🙄 Don’t believe all you read in the daily mail OP.

If this is even real, I hope your gran gets help soon, just like I wish anyone in that situation does, regardless of if they have served this country or paid in. We’re all human, we all feel pain and we all need help sometimes.

The care facility my aunt lives in has carers on site, people live in attractive flats and have care plans. It has a cafe, a beautiful sitting room, social areas and garden and activities. It is well-run and much cheaper than the grotty care home she was previously in.
Many of the medical issues could be dealt with onsite if medical support was available.
Falls that end up with minor cuts/bruises
Constipation
Upset stomachs
Infections that require broad spectrum antibiotics
Pain med adjustments

As it is what appears to happen is GPs are rung (none of the carers are medical staff). GPs do nothing or send someone who is not a GP. The residents are registered with many different GP surgeries so there is no consistency of response. Where there is no response at all carers or residents ring 111. A paramedic might then turn up - they can do some things but will not do things like give enemas or risk prescribing antibiotics so those patients are taken off to A and E.
This has happened 3x to my aunt this year and is about to happen again. She needs an enema this time- that's all.
What can't there be a hub of elderly care staff across local authority areas to deal with minor 'illness' like this? Wound care, constipation, medication care,blood testing and meds adjustment, urine infections, upset stomachs, fluids? It would stop people having to go to hospitals.
They could be treated in cubicles in a clinically cleaned area of carehomes/sheltered accomodation/ in their own rooms where possible?

Absolutely this. There’s absolutely no point chucking more billions at the NHS. It needs a total reform & rebuild.

So how much would a 97yr old with a history of falls have to pay for insurance under this new system ?

You would think they could at least have flying paramedics to give pain relief and catheterisation for the duration of the long waits.

@LoveCherryTree you must complain. In the short term phone back and very calmly note that you will hold the service responsible for any deterioration in her well being. Email your MP now and at least it will be picked up at 8.30ish tomorrow morning by their office. Email your local councillors and publicise it on Next Door, local paper.

It's an absolute disgrace. The public locked down for the NHS during covid. They have not locked out for the public. Instead they have been on strike and been give increases above anybody else.

Kick up a stink, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I think the elderly would be better off being treated for most things at home - my experience of very elderly (99) aunt in a care home was that at night younger inexperienced carers would call an ambulance as they’d panic at symptoms that were unfortunately inevitable. Then shipped off to A and E, week or so in hospital getting weaker/more confused, no real treatment, then back to nursing home to start the process again. The care in hospital was poor, often the same patients there, maybe they never went home! This was all with a “no extraordinary measures” approach. I’m not sure what the answer is - whole hospitals dedicated to the over 80’s maybe. I won’t be too sorry if I don't live long enough to be old!

Well said. Do you know how long it takes to arrange social care for elderly people who are ready to leave hospital in the UK? My only experience is when my grandmother suddenly became very ill - and that was not in the UK. She spent a week or so in hospital, and once she was deemed fit enough to leave there was a meeting with the social care coordinator in the afternoon and the next morning my grandmother was dimissed from hospital and went home with round the clock care in place. I was very impressed by how quick they managed to arrange it.

The government agrees with you, that’s the plan.

@LoveCherryTree we are all thinking of you and sending her our best.

only thing to say really is what has been said, is keep a watch on her symptoms and phone the ambulance again to update as soon as you can offer anything that will make the case more urgent.

I meant that itself is dire because all it is saying is 'hope she gets worse in order to make her overall situation better'. God I hate the mess we are all in. This country is a state.

There’s veterans living on the streets who have fought for this country. No one in Government cares about them either. No urgent help for suicidal veterans. The charity Combat stress are brilliant but there’s a wait for them too if you can manage to stay alive long enough

Absolutely this. There’s absolutely no point chucking more billions at the NHS. It needs a total reform & rebuild.

I think the elderly can be so bloody stubborn and won't admit their frailties. They don't want to be seen with sticks and zimmer frames .

Sweeping generalisations much? Dear lord. Some 'elderly' are quite happy to use sticks and frames if they had been assessed by physiotherapy and offered them. Some 'elderly' don't have any idea about how to seek an assessment or even if it is necessary. Some 'elderly' will use them because they need them. There isn't much point in them being used by people who don't need them 'just in case' as retaining strength and mobility is a huge part of aging well. If you are leaning on a frame when you don't need one you will decondition which will cause more problems for you long run.

I think thats a bit offensive stereotyping to me.

The NHS in its current form is not salvageable. We need to move to a personal insurance based system before the whole thing collapses. NHS is a brilliant idea but it is no longer financially viable. It’s very sad, but true.

Lovely , does the private sector have enough beds for all the patients needing them for non surgical reasons ? Is this private health care going to be able to fix the private social care sector, remember social care is provided by private companies and not the State in the vast majority of cases, because this is ultimately where one of the biggest issues lies, if you cannot discharge someone safely then you have to keep them, regardless, otherwise you will be safeguarded to kingdom come !

I’m so sorry op, your poor Gran☹️ I would ring again. I hope they come soon.

My friend works in A&E & she said it’s a complete shambles, made worse by the huge amount of people that absolutely shouldn’t be there. There was a young lad that had severe chest pain, ambulance brought him in & it later comes out that he’s had panic attacks for years & that this one was brought on by his ex withholding his belongings & he was upset about it.

Lots of stories like this & she said most shouldn’t be there & then people like your Gran get left☹️

Other European countries also have large elderly populations yet their health services work well.
NHS has too many managers, too many pen pushers, too many people involved in devising questionnaires, too many stages to go through to get to see a consultant. The list goes on.
It needs to be deconstructed and rebuilt on a European model.

Already explained that I did realise most likely cause wasn't cardiac or PE and my post wasn't well written, so not explaining again to you so go ahead abd think whatever you wish .

I think the elderly can be so bloody stubborn and won't admit their frailties. They don't want to be seen with sticks and zimmer frames . My mum is mobile but that doesn't mean she wouldn't hurt herself falling whereas a younger person might bounce . It's taking longer for old bones to heal aswell meaning more trips to fracture clinics , more X-rays., more casts etc .

My close relatives last trip to hospital also began with a 7 hour wait in an ambulance. This was about 7 years ago.
He never came out and died in there.
It's why I'm all for assisted dying.

People think terminal ill elderly people goto a hospice and die gently with morphine and music.
No.

They die in these hospitals with all this incompetence still going on people are declaring.

No magic happens just because someone is dying. They die in this shit.

That's so frightening, luckily you had that knowledge .

I work with patient flow and our hospital and those around have no room. So there are no beds, which means patients in ED can't move upstairs and inevitably ambulances queue outside and then can't attend new calls.
We were in a minus for predicated admissions today and there were over 100 people waiting for an ambulance to go to them at 4pm.

There's so many reasons for this but yes we are in an absolute mess

Elderly people falling is a huge issue.

I sometimes wonder if its partly that no one seems to use canes etc any more? My grandparents always had walking sticks. Also maybe older people going to the shops etc alone who in the past would have been taken by daughters who didn't work but now do.

We had these convalescence homes and cottage hospitals for years.Thatcher's government closed them down and sold them off.Many of the large convalescence homes are now luxury hotels, wedding venues and conference centres.The majority of patients loved going there.

I went into hospital a good few times after that and it was shit then too. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter when/who etc. The NHS is poorly run, not enough staff, facilities etc and too many people. That's the part that needs to change. Less managers, more doctors, more buildings/more vehicles.

I am so sorry OP this is awful. All you can do is keep calling and keep her as warm and comfortable as is possible. Generally ambulances and A&E are awful at the moment and that is before the winter really hits. The reality is that emergency care is under such stress that it is near collapse.