Who was in the wrong - bakery or me?

It’s a weird thread, so now you’ve got your answer I wouldn’t be arguing with someone who took the time to explain it to you.

I would too. Otherwise there would just be chairs for waiting and no table!

Your allowed to eat in at the 'chain bakery' as they charge VAT on their products for the privilege of eating in. (That's why they now ask you are you taking away or eating in). The bakery won't be charging you the VAT

That’s a little unfair- pretty sure the OP would have noticed if someone elderly or disabled was waiting and needed a seat…

Or HMRC; they are breaking the VAT rules.

I think this whole thread encapsulates is why I avoid places that are not 100% crystal clear in how they operate. I don't want to spend money on food, then settle down to eat with two small kids in tow only to be told I've got it wrong, the table in the place serving food was not actually for the people buying food, and have the embarrassment and hassle of rounding everyone up and moving along with my half eaten sausage role.

If I saw a table and chairs in this situation, I'd sit there.
If they are for a specific group, there should be a label on the table.

I get pastry crumbs everywhere when I exceed 30mph.

That about covers it!

But why do you keep repeating it when there has been no suggestion that the OP will have otherwise?

And let me put it simply for you. I’m not suggesting OP WAS going to do anything. It’s a statement of a fact and not loaded, so I’m not sure why you are getting defensive on her behalf. She’s been told not to do something, therefore it follows that she should not do something.
If the speed limit is 30, you should not exceed 30. That is not me accusing anyone of intending to speed. It’s just a fact.

I wouldn't be at all embarrassed. I'd wonder why the hell no one had mentioned it for the last year. They could have even added a sign if they didn't want to address it directly. So bizarre.

Yes, they’ve let it go in the past because it’s just once a week but there’s either been a complaint, or head office, or council have had a word so they’re letting OP know now.

nobody’s been weird or done anything wrong.

*typo

@taxguru I know.

If anything is eaten ON the premises, hot or cold, then it's standard rated for VAT as it becomes a supply of catering, not a supply of food.

If something is cooked/baked to order in order to eat hot, it's standard rated for VAT, whether eaten in or out.

If something "has to be cooked/baked" but once cooked is not kept artificially warm by putting under a heat lamp or in a warm cabinet, then it's zero rated if eaten off the premises, regardless of how "hot" it is when served.

So your bread, roast chicken, pies, etc., will be zero rated IF eaten off the premises AND if they were cooked because they had to be cooked - i.e. no one would want an uncooked load of bread or an uncooked pie, A cooked roast chicken is slightly different as, of course, people do buy uncooked chickens, but then intention comes into it, i.e. you can still buy a cooked chicken and not eat it straight away - you can take it home and eat it once it's cooled. So a cooked roast chicken will be zero rated as long as it's not eaten on the premises etc.

Who said tax doesn't have to be taxing!

If someone told me I had been sitting in an area not meant for customers every week for year, I would be embarrassed, not trying to make out the bakery were in the wrong and/or weird for pointing it out to me.

Why would you be embarrassed though? Surely it’s entirely the fault of the bakery that this has been going on every week for a year? They could have picked any one of the previous 51 weeks to tell her.

They are a business and allowed to have their own policies.

Of course they are - but it shouldn’t be a guessing game. If you have a policy, why not share it instead of letting someone break it for a year?

This is bonkers. I have never heard of tables in a food place that can't be sat at. All the posters responding as if this is a thing?

No one is being unreasonable, they probably said nothing at first but as it's become a regular thing they've politely pointed it out. Yanbu not to have known, they are not bu in politely letting you know. It's a takeaway service so just take it away

I wouldn't be mortified at all. It's completely understandable for the OP to have assumed that the table was for customers to sit at and eat their purchases. Plenty of other bakeries, including well-known chains like Greggs, provide tables and chairs for customers to eat at. Often there are only one or two tables. I'm aware that eating in has implications for VAT and places demands on staff (wiping the table etc) but this is for the business to manage.

I don't think the individual member of staff is unreasonable to mention politely that the table isn't meant for eating at, if that is the bakery's policy.

The bakery itself (i.e., the owner/manager) is also being reasonable in providing chairs for waiting customers. This will likely be much appreciated by some for whom walking and standing is difficult. For some, it might even be the difference between being able to walk to the shop and home again, and having to drive/use a mobility scooter/get food delivered.

The unreasonable behaviour was that of the bakery in providing a table, if it's not for eating at. They could probably have fitted three chairs in the space taken up by two chairs and a table, and misunderstandings as to their purpose would be much less likely. If there was no table, staff would likely be saved from needing to choose between cleaning up after customers and having awkward conversations.

If they have a table then I can't see you as being in the wrong for sitting at it! This would probably irk me too tbh.
If they don't want customers to sit and eat, maybe don't have a table.
I'd probably take my kids elsewhere so they could sit and eat without being made to feel like an inconvenience to staff.
It's weird in this country how we are made to feel like businesses are doing us a massive favour, by letting us spend our money there!

Bakery is technically in the right if they're informing you of the correct use and I'd have apologised.

I'd have then asked why they didn't stop me a year ago and why their "waiting area" isn't suitably sign posted as such. I get that one table in a bakery doesn't suggest an "eat in" facility as it's only one table so hardly for the masses- but it's still up to the bakery to suitably communicate the purpose. It wasn't communicated to you. I wouldn't be back, either.

I walked out of a shop before when I walked up to a seemingly queueless, ready to serve till and the girl behind it smirked and loudly told me - and everyone else in the small shop- that she couldn't serve me. I must've missed someone stepping away or something. It wasn't what she- obviously rightly if she wasn't free to serve- told me, it was the loudness and talking to a toddler tone that she seemed to relish that made me say "I see", put down my items and leave. Then again I'm notably touchy.

My town has at least a couple of cafe/deli type places that only have one table, and they do get used. They don't have toilets either. I'm unable to report on their arrangements vis-a-vis VAT regulations.

I'm not sticking the boot in. Talk about hyperbole, yourself!

The OP herself brought up the mess of flakes:

There is a tiny table with two chairs. I plop one of my kids on my lap and we eat our treat. I prefer this as otherwise the flakes would go everywhere.

If someone told me I had been sitting in an area not meant for customers every week for year, I would be embarrassed, not trying to make out the bakery were in the wrong and/or weird for pointing it out to me. They are a business and allowed to have their own policies.

So much hyperbole.

"Showering a bakery floor with you and your offspring's sausage roll flakes"
Showering? Are you sure?
Offspring? Do you mean the OP's children?

"getting on MN all indignant"
She only asked...there is no indignance to be found in her posts. People can ask MN whatever they like. It is a chat forum.

Tell you what I think is pretty shit. Getting on MN to embellish non-events so you can be rude and stick the boot in to a stranger.

If it’s waiting only then the chairs make sense, but the table suggests you can eat there?