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Jeremy Clarkson is damaging farmers

244 replies

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 11:17

He should butt out of the inheritance tax debacle. As Victoria Derbyshire reminded him during the London protests, he admitted in news print, when he bought his farm it was to dodge inheritance tax. Now he’s jumping in the back of farmers who probably won’t in actual fact pay very much ( smaller farms than his) for his own mercenary agenda. Farmers need to distance themselves from him and ban him from public events. He’s muddying their message and making them look bad by association. Ps I understand farmers need their farms intact to pass on but tbh we all need to pass on our wealth. I run a business and it’ll be screwed by inheritance tax to some extent. I don’t like it but you have to get on with it. That’s just the way of things isn’t it. Gotta pay for the NHS, schools and essential services from somewhere. Farms will need to sell assets I get it. Yes the largest farms will shrink in size but you just have to diversify to make up the difference if you want the same level of income. That’s what we do in business. Also it will make (potentially) land available for incomers to the industry. Lack of new blood and chances to enter farming have been an issue for many years. This is partly a consequence of even the largest farms being ‘handed down’ intact.

OP posts:
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Bringautumnnights · 26/11/2024 14:20

In all honesty, so what if Clarkson bought the farm to skip inheritance tax? (A legal loophole) Everyone is well aware he can afford the IHT but most farmers cannot and it will destroy them.

He bought a farm from a Farmer who obviously needed to sell, employed local people to run it for how many years, then for the past 5 or so years has actively increased the profile of the struggles of farmers and the profiles of the Cotswolds farmers, whilst launching the career of another farmer who has actively increased the profile of young farmers. Yes he's a dickhead, however he's a dickhead whose done an awful lot for the Farming industry.

GrannyGoggles · 26/11/2024 14:17

@notanothernamechange24
I stand corrected and apologise

I took my information from Clarkson’s article in the Times

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 14:12

GrannyGoggles · 26/11/2024 14:05

@notanothernamechange24

Clarkson has said, and written, that he was asked to talk to journalists at the protest. He was ‘off his tits’ (his words) on painkillers. Events overtook him. He got up on his hindlegs and spoke.

He was not ‘asked by farmers’ and has now been asked by NFU to stfu

@GrannyGoggles Yes he got up on stage and talked. Funnily enough because Olly leading the rally on stage asked him to come up and talk 🤷🏻‍♀️
I was watching the live feed I witnessed it myself.
I also have watched every single daily vlog Olly has put out about this.

Funnily enough Olly is a farmer! Along with the other organisers of said rally!

GrannyGoggles · 26/11/2024 14:05

@notanothernamechange24

Clarkson has said, and written, that he was asked to talk to journalists at the protest. He was ‘off his tits’ (his words) on painkillers. Events overtook him. He got up on his hindlegs and spoke.

He was not ‘asked by farmers’ and has now been asked by NFU to stfu

SallyLo · 26/11/2024 13:54

SleepToad · 26/11/2024 11:22

No he's public face who's raised the profile of farmers and the problems they face massively. He is using the farm that way, has never denied that, but has repeatedly pointed out over the last 4 years that he is very lucky to have other income and that many farmers do not

this.

DogInATent · 26/11/2024 13:51

We are currently sending 536million a year abroad to develop agriculture in other parts of the world. Brazil being one of the largest recipients of our money - Brazil is the 11th largest economy in the world.

£110 million on agricultural foreign aid projects and £445 million on environmental foreign aid projects.

UK consumption of soy (mostly for animal feed) has been a significant contributor to deforestation in Brazil. It could be argued that this aid is subsidising irresponsible and unsustainable purchasing practices by UK agriculture and industry. Driven by, as you say, food in the UK being misunderstood, underappreciated, undervalued, and far too cheap on the shelf.

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 13:51

Papyrophile · 26/11/2024 13:31

@GrannyGoggles has got the balance about right IMO.
I know people who have made their millions in the City, and have bought large tracts of land with glorious farmhouses and manors, and while I am sure they love being part of the squirearchy and all the shooting and fishing rights, the real agenda is rollover relief.

Their lives do not look like the real, small-ish scale dairy farmer whose fields and farmhouse are on the opposite of our valley. He milks his herd and moves their grazing area between 5 and 8 am, then repeats the process in the early evening.

Sorry that was supposed to say

So set the thresholds higher 8 - 10 million would take the majority of smaller low income farms out of the equation.

EdithStourton · 26/11/2024 13:44

AnneLovesGilbert · 26/11/2024 11:45

The farmers I know think he’s done more to raise the profile of the difficulties farmers are facing than anyone else has ever managed to. They love him and are grateful for his involvement.

This.

As one said to me, 'Makes a nice change from Countryfile where farmers are either cuddling lambs or killing everything.'

As @derxa sais upthread,
The BBC approach to farming is Countryfile. Infantilising and patronising.

So Clarkson, love him or hate him, has done a massive amount for public understanding.

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 13:42

Papyrophile · 26/11/2024 13:31

@GrannyGoggles has got the balance about right IMO.
I know people who have made their millions in the City, and have bought large tracts of land with glorious farmhouses and manors, and while I am sure they love being part of the squirearchy and all the shooting and fishing rights, the real agenda is rollover relief.

Their lives do not look like the real, small-ish scale dairy farmer whose fields and farmhouse are on the opposite of our valley. He milks his herd and moves their grazing area between 5 and 8 am, then repeats the process in the early evening.

So

derxa · 26/11/2024 13:37

BourbonsAreOverated · 26/11/2024 13:23

surely that’s because they are aimed at different people.
your unlikely to watch countryfile if you’ve no interest in farming and the countryside, but if you were also a petrol head then you’d give diddlysquat a go.

Dont get me wrong he’s done a lot to show the reality

Farmers don’t watch Countryfile either. It’s for people who have a general interest in the country. It’s all very sanitised.

Papyrophile · 26/11/2024 13:31

@GrannyGoggles has got the balance about right IMO.
I know people who have made their millions in the City, and have bought large tracts of land with glorious farmhouses and manors, and while I am sure they love being part of the squirearchy and all the shooting and fishing rights, the real agenda is rollover relief.

Their lives do not look like the real, small-ish scale dairy farmer whose fields and farmhouse are on the opposite of our valley. He milks his herd and moves their grazing area between 5 and 8 am, then repeats the process in the early evening.

ThisAquaCrow · 26/11/2024 13:28

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 13:16

Farmers asked him to speak!!!!
He wasn't going to and was repeatedly asked. He can't do right for wrong here.
Either he is part of the campaign and the press decide - He is part of the problem so should go away and have nothing to do with it

Or He stays out of it - and it will be him abandoning farming at its hour of need!

And No landowners like Clarkson are not the problem. Their land is productive farm land producing food. Before he ran it himself he rented it out at a decent rent to a local man who had farmed it for decades. Clarkson took it back over when he either retired or died.

Which farmers? Were? I bet you they wished they’d read the Times first 😂

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 13:25

Decided to write a post to kind of myth bust a lot of what is being said around the agricultural Inheritance Tax issue. Because this issue is important to EVERYONE and will affect all of us.
It’s going to be a long post but please read it in full.

What has changed?
So with the budget the government has removed both APR relief and BPR relief from all businesses.
APR = Agricultural Property Relief - this covers the land, the buildings and the farmhouse.
BPR = Business Property Relief - this covers the machinery, equipment, livestock, consumables such as seed and fertiliser and crop in the ground.
Now the first million of combined assets from both APR and BPR is IHT free and anything over 1 million is taxed at 20%.
Under certain conditions it MIGHT be possible for SOME farms to get up to 3 million tax free. But that doesn't work for all. It’s a case of if your circumstances meet the exact criteria your ok if not you won’t get the full 3 million.

When the government talk about 500 farms per year being affected they are only talking about the APR proportion of the tax. They have deliberately excluded talking about the fact that BPR is also included and taxed.

The NFU are saying that 75% of family farms will be affected.

• it will also include a significant number of tenant farmers as they still will be affected by BPR.
BPR will also affect a number of other industries as well.
Haulage firms, Contractors and any businesses with high asset values comparative to income will be badly affected.

At the same time subsidies are being cut by 70% in some cases
Tax on fertiliser is going up by £50 per ton.
Tax on domestic vehicles is going up over 200%
NI for employers is going up.

Why shouldn't farmers pay tax like every other business?
Because quite simply farming doesn't work like any other business does. Most businesses work out their pricing by working out the cost of production + profit and tax. They are in control of who they sell to. When component prices go up so to does the selling price.
Farming doesn't work like that. Farmers have little to no control over prices.
The combination of global markets, supermarket competition and subsidized food control the prices.
At the same time input costs and yields are not controllable either. Weather conditions play a huge role in how good the harvest is. Unless you are able to grow all your feed for your livestock there can be huge variation year to year on feed prices.

Farming is a high asset value to low income business. It is unique purely because it is a rubbish business model. But it is a necessary business. Without it quite simply we would have no food.

Why do farms make so little return?

A lot of the foods you buy are subsidised by the government and has been for decades.
if we had to pay the full costs we would have an even more serious poverty issue than we have already.

After the war in the 1950s we had a serious issue with malnutrition and issues like rickets. Food was short and expensive. The country on its knees after the horrors of the 1940s. In order to combat that the government subsidised lots of essential foods. So the public were paying artificially low prices for things like milk. They then paid the farmers a subsidy to partially make up the shortfall

For context in the 1980s people were paying approximately 25% of their household income on average on food.
Today it is approximately 13% so half.

A pint of milk was equal to two pints of beer
Now beer per pint is 13 x more expensive than a pint of milk.

If people want farmers to go back to paying IHT then they will need to double what they pay for food.

Can you afford that? Can everyone you know afford it?

It’s important to note too that even with subsidies farmers still do not get the full value of what they produce.

What about people buying land to avoid paying tax?
The likes of Clarkson and Dyson buying land is a red herring. That land is still in the business production of food. It's doing what's needed.

Many many big landowners rent agricultural land out at very reasonable rates for tenant farmers. They do so because they don't need the money for the rent (it needs to cover its cost not much more) because the payoff comes in the form of reduced IHT.

I personally know a farmer who rented land for 17 years from a landowner. Then when landowner was considering selling up he sold it to the farmer at a really good price and guaranteed the farmers mortgage!

That said though this budget will do nothing to deter those who seek to reduce their IHT bill as it will still be the cheapest way of reducing IHT bill.

But farmers voted for Brexit
farmers voted for brexit in no greater numbers percentage wise than any other profession.
Don't make sweeping judgments without actually knowing the FACTS.

Farmers are no more responsible for brexit than any other profession

What about Gifting the farm?

The trouble is you don't know when you're going to die.
If you gift it on then you can't benefit from the farm in anyway after that. So you can't pass it on and remain living in the farmhouse for example. Even if the person you pass it on to is also living there.

And what if people don't die in the right order. Farming is considered to be the most dangerous profession in the UK now. What if the oldest generation pass it on and the younger generation die first?

Putting land in trusts is also complicated. For large landowners that is probably what they will do. So therefore the very wealthy will still avoid IHT.

But for the majority of farms putting it in a trust doesn’t work because once it’s in a trust you can’t borrow against it. So you can’t raise a loan or mortgage against it. This will slow or halt development and progression.

What are the potential consequences of this?
If we lose too many family farms due to this tax then they are likely gone forever. Other farmers won’t be able to buy up all the available land - they simply don’t have the money especially now.

If food production here reduces we become even more vulnerable to the instability of global markets.
At best it would mean price hikes at worst if there were to be another major war or global disaster we could have serious food shortages. You only have to think back to the panic in 2020 with covid to see the potential for chaos.

The predicted income from this tax is approximately 500million a year.
We are currently sending 536million a year abroad to develop agriculture in other parts of the world. Brazil being one of the largest recipients of our money - Brazil is the 11th largest economy in the world.

Stop sending more money abroad and leave farmers alone

BourbonsAreOverated · 26/11/2024 13:23

TheFlis · 26/11/2024 11:21

On the inheritance tax issue maybe but a couple of years ago the NFU voted him Farming Champion of the year and said the first series of Clarksons Farm did more for farmers than Countryfile has achieved in 30 years.

surely that’s because they are aimed at different people.
your unlikely to watch countryfile if you’ve no interest in farming and the countryside, but if you were also a petrol head then you’d give diddlysquat a go.

Dont get me wrong he’s done a lot to show the reality

Bollihobs · 26/11/2024 13:20

@Pippyls67 "he admitted in news print, when he bought his farm it was to dodge inheritance tax. "

As he pointed out to VD his actual statement was that he bought the farm because he wanted to shoot and it was a bonus that it came with the tax benefits that it did.

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 13:16

Farmers asked him to speak!!!!
He wasn't going to and was repeatedly asked. He can't do right for wrong here.
Either he is part of the campaign and the press decide - He is part of the problem so should go away and have nothing to do with it

Or He stays out of it - and it will be him abandoning farming at its hour of need!

And No landowners like Clarkson are not the problem. Their land is productive farm land producing food. Before he ran it himself he rented it out at a decent rent to a local man who had farmed it for decades. Clarkson took it back over when he either retired or died.

Pat888 · 26/11/2024 13:14

the Gov has held fast over the image of shivering WW2 veterans dying in droves from hypothermia due to losing their WFA -I don’t see them giving in to complaining farmers.

Serencwtch · 26/11/2024 13:10

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 12:36

The experiences at work of those who own the farm and those who carry out ‘jobs in agriculture’ isn’t quite the same is it? I’ve worked in agriculture and gotten the backbreaking shitty jobs more than the boss. Plus he had a hell of a lot better house than me and a hell of a lot nicer view. Oh and I’d get called out in the night to calve a cow from my own home. He was happily tucked up in Bedfordshire with a hot water bottle. I don’t blame him. Good luck to him. He’d say “I don’t keep dogs and bark myself”. I’d have been the same if I was him I don’t doubt. Mind you, you’d see some sights at night. Best was foxes who came into the shed to scoff the ‘cleansings’ (afterbirth) at the dead of night. Cheeky little buggers. Plus it’s like the the rest of the workd doesn’t exist at that time. Loved that sometimes when you’d go home to a house of rowdy kids and chaos.

We own only a small amount of land and are tenants everywhere else, juggling grazing with other farmers. We currently have sheep on land that another farmer had cattle on a few months back & also another farmer who grew Lucerne in the past year. None of us have ever met the land owner - we deal with his accountant etc.

I wouldn't call the landowners 'farmers' though. We are the farmers who farm the land. The land owner is completely different & wouldn't have a clue.

We have nowhere thing to gain or lose directly from IHT but it kicks us when there is less & less grazing to go around, recently lost a chunk of grazing as the owner (not farmer) parcelled up land and sold it off to pay off taxes. we are the ones who end up with the squeezed (if any) profits.

People don't understand that it's us the real hard working farmers who are hit - the wealthy landowners don't miss their land when it's gone as they have the cash in their bank instead

MrsPeregrine · 26/11/2024 13:10

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 11:17

He should butt out of the inheritance tax debacle. As Victoria Derbyshire reminded him during the London protests, he admitted in news print, when he bought his farm it was to dodge inheritance tax. Now he’s jumping in the back of farmers who probably won’t in actual fact pay very much ( smaller farms than his) for his own mercenary agenda. Farmers need to distance themselves from him and ban him from public events. He’s muddying their message and making them look bad by association. Ps I understand farmers need their farms intact to pass on but tbh we all need to pass on our wealth. I run a business and it’ll be screwed by inheritance tax to some extent. I don’t like it but you have to get on with it. That’s just the way of things isn’t it. Gotta pay for the NHS, schools and essential services from somewhere. Farms will need to sell assets I get it. Yes the largest farms will shrink in size but you just have to diversify to make up the difference if you want the same level of income. That’s what we do in business. Also it will make (potentially) land available for incomers to the industry. Lack of new blood and chances to enter farming have been an issue for many years. This is partly a consequence of even the largest farms being ‘handed down’ intact.

If they sell their assets, which you suggest as if it’s such a simple easy option for them, then that has a direct impact on their ability to earn an income. Many farming businesses will become unviable after farming families have no option but to sell their land to pay this tax. I think the government want the land sold to free it up for housing, so it can be bought up by investment firms for carbon offsetting and for use and solar and wind farms. It’s going to mean we are more reliant on imports than ever before, massively increasing the cost of our food. I can’t see how this will have anything but a detrimental effect on people’s pockets and the economy.

KnittedCardi · 26/11/2024 13:09

Whole farms would not be sold though, right? Just parcels of land? What happens to this land?!

I can tell you what happens to parcels of agricultural land. They are either bought by developers and land banked. Left for years, not used. Or, they are then broken up further, sold in lots, and left as above until planning permission can be obtained, or gradually over time, occupied, fenced, filled with crap, and ruined forever.

We have two such areas local to me. Agricultural land on Green Belt adjacent to AONB. People being bussed in and sold on the promise of planning approval. Another site has gradually been developed over 10 years. Every single application and appeal denied, literally hundreds of enforcement notices, and yet the development continues. Councils are completely powerless.

Yet another parcel is to be covered in solar panels.

All these acres of previously productive land lost.

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 13:08

derxa · 26/11/2024 12:15

You’re just parroting cliches

Explain in detail please?

OP posts:
anotherside · 26/11/2024 13:08

taxguru · 26/11/2024 12:02

Nail on the head there. We NEED farmers to produce the food this country NEEDS rather than be reliant on foreign billionaires whether in terms of having to import food from elsewhere or growing food in the UK in farms owned by huge (often foreign) firms.

If, and it's a big IF, there's a problem with current IHT laws, then change the law to target the "rich" playing at being farmers and protect the genuine family farms. It's not rocket science.

As it stands, just like VAT on private school fees, it's nothing but politics of envy. Someone, somewhere, thinks that farmers are printing money and they want to give them a kicking as punishment. Nothing to do with what's right for the country. It's just like sixth form debating society these days rather than proper, thoughtful, research and evaluation of options, consequences, etc.

Making business pay VAT so as to better fund state education is just closing a loophole. It’s regrettable that most schools seem to be passing on the full costs to their customers rather than tightening their belts a bit, but that’s on them.

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 13:07

GrannyGoggles · 26/11/2024 12:59

As a farmer I’m not happy to have Clarkson as a self appointed spokesman. His program has done some good, but imo he needs to pipe down on this issue.

Please, please can we stop trotting out the idea that lower land prices will enable wannabe farmers to get a foothold. It simply won’t happen because of the huge capital investment required.

Farmers have, and will continue to diversify since time immemorial. The new APR ruling along with moves on business relief will cause succession planning headaches which we have to accept and work with.

Ironically the introduction of APR has brought in the likes of Clarkson and Dyson and is a contributing factor to rising land prices. Rollover I believe is a bigger trigger.

Rising land values do not benefit farmers until they wish to sell, and are set to become a liability on death.

Also, fed up of the advice to just hand it on. It’s not that simple. You can not benefit from assets you’ve handed on. There is no money for handers on to pay rent to the next generation. Not to mention the possibility of divorce, illness, falling out with next generation. Many farmers have a tale of how handing on early led to loss of land and hardship after a divorce int the next generation.

My belief is that farming has been going through extraordinary changes in the last few decades. This latest is part of a wider social and economic change.

Successive governments have failed to address this, disappointingly this government is following suit. Brexit has been catastrophic. And before you pile on, the widely accepted figure is that 53% of farmers who vote voted leave. Which means 47% did not, apparently 45% voted remain. Not so v different from 52/48.

It appears there is no coherence: do we want food security? Do we want to minimise food miles? Have nutritious food with known provenance? Do we wish to move away from mono cropping? Towards a more sustainable way of farming? How do we want our countryside to look? What is it for?

The polarisation of rural and urban, rich bastard farmers can pay serves no one. I think it’s unarguable that those of have bought land as a tax advantageous investment should be targeted. Current proposals are going to have a disproportionate effect on those who
can least afford it.

Superb post. You clearly know what you are talking about. I don’t understand the very last point though about it disproportionately affecting those who can least afford it. Would you mind expanding on this please?

OP posts:
MrsPeregrine · 26/11/2024 13:04

username8348 · 26/11/2024 11:20

He's a colossal wanker.

You wouldn’t be saying that if he wasn’t an old middle aged white man though. Would you?

DogInATent · 26/11/2024 13:02

Clarkson and Dyson are in it because they bought into farmland as a IHT dodge, Clarkson has raised the profile but not in a positive way.

Farage has jumped on the bandwagon because it's cheap points scoring, he shafted the fishing industry with feigned interest and now wants to screw over farming for some more cheap points. At least the farmers had the good sense to exclude him from the platform, I hope they'll maintain the good sense to marginalise his attempts to get involved.

There's been interesting discussions amongst the tax experts since the budget on IHT and farming - who were mostly positive based just on numbers and raw data, but have now had feedback and thought some more. Some initial positions being adjusted (from "it's a good thing" to "it could be a better thing if..") and more in depth analysis of the data being done. The number of farms predicted to be affected remains about the same, but the number of those that are genuine farms is dropping as better analysis identifies the most likely IHT dodges (one marker being claiming both agricultural relief and AIM relief). Some really interesting ideas coming out for fixes that could be made to target those who buy land principally to avoid IHT and remove almost all genuine small farms that could be made without being seen as a U-turn on the original announcement.

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