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Jeremy Clarkson is damaging farmers

244 replies

Pippyls67 · 26/11/2024 11:17

He should butt out of the inheritance tax debacle. As Victoria Derbyshire reminded him during the London protests, he admitted in news print, when he bought his farm it was to dodge inheritance tax. Now he’s jumping in the back of farmers who probably won’t in actual fact pay very much ( smaller farms than his) for his own mercenary agenda. Farmers need to distance themselves from him and ban him from public events. He’s muddying their message and making them look bad by association. Ps I understand farmers need their farms intact to pass on but tbh we all need to pass on our wealth. I run a business and it’ll be screwed by inheritance tax to some extent. I don’t like it but you have to get on with it. That’s just the way of things isn’t it. Gotta pay for the NHS, schools and essential services from somewhere. Farms will need to sell assets I get it. Yes the largest farms will shrink in size but you just have to diversify to make up the difference if you want the same level of income. That’s what we do in business. Also it will make (potentially) land available for incomers to the industry. Lack of new blood and chances to enter farming have been an issue for many years. This is partly a consequence of even the largest farms being ‘handed down’ intact.

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hyperkid · 26/11/2024 15:43

derxa · 26/11/2024 12:50

What of it? You know some wealthy farmers. Most are not.

It’s a cliche on here. The working class girl who now earns a ‘six figure salary’. Are you sniffy about her and her wealth.

No, presumably because she pays her taxes. Good on her.

It is interesting how asking people to pay their fair share is framed by the privileged as 'politics of envy'.

cardibach · 26/11/2024 15:43

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:40

It won’t affect me because we are tiny. But I will take advice. I said I didn’t know exactly what others’ situation was.

So the type of people you were talking about above are unlikely to be affected also? Because they farm small farms? It’s the other type, like Clarkson, like Dyson, like lots of people with loads of money and no farming background who have bought land to avoid IHT (and in the process pushed the price up), that this policy is aimed at.
What happened to farms before the exemption came in? It’s not that long ago.

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:42

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:38

Do you think that the government will care to notice? That’s my point really. The narrative becomes Clarkson, land owners, evasion. That was the screw up. It was a shame the protest and the discussions were in the same day.

No the narrative is the numbers.

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:40

cardibach · 26/11/2024 15:36

Haven’t you said before that those people are unaffected by the changes though, @derxa ? I’m sure elsewhere you have said it won’t affect your farm or anyone you know personally - so why are you so convinced it will affect so many?

It won’t affect me because we are tiny. But I will take advice. I said I didn’t know exactly what others’ situation was.

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:38

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:34

But the nfu are separate from the protest and its organisers. You don’t seem to understand that idea.

Do you think that the government will care to notice? That’s my point really. The narrative becomes Clarkson, land owners, evasion. That was the screw up. It was a shame the protest and the discussions were in the same day.

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 15:38

@bombastix but that's not what they have done at all!
Farmers turned out on mass to show their feelings. There was no nastiness. Approximately 40 thousand people turned out to a peaceful rally. They donated 6.6 tons of food to local food banks.
They want to show what they do and demonstrate why the industry is so important.

Behind the scenes they have sat down worked out the figures and shown how and why labours figures are wrong.

There was no disruption or chaos it was orderly peaceful and respectful.

Papyrophile · 26/11/2024 15:37

Well, if nothing else, the move to impose IHT on agricultural land and the strong reaction provoked have managed to drive a dozen or so MN threads which are giving the issues (and many tangential issues related to tax avoidance, tax evasion and the collection of taxes, including several billions in the black economy) a more thorough airing from all views than will happen in Parliament.

cardibach · 26/11/2024 15:37

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:34

But the nfu are separate from the protest and its organisers. You don’t seem to understand that idea.

Shouldn’t they be at least trying to coordinate though? Shouting about how horrid and mean they are outside the building where others on your side are trying to hammer out a compromise seems…shortsighted at best.

cardibach · 26/11/2024 15:36

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:32

The more I read the more I think this is a regional situation. Where we farm it’s ’smaller’ family farms owned by the farmer. My wider family have been farming in this county for hundreds of years. People like my cousin (nearly eighty). He was kicked in the face by a cow and drove himself to hospital with blood streaming down his face. Those sort of people.

Haven’t you said before that those people are unaffected by the changes though, @derxa ? I’m sure elsewhere you have said it won’t affect your farm or anyone you know personally - so why are you so convinced it will affect so many?

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:34

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:25

Have you ever had to try and persuade someone of your point of view? If not, understand that you are unlikely to be successful if you run up with a group of people who say “I don’t like you”. That is totally basic. Governments don’t usually respond well to it; they usually double down.

But the nfu are separate from the protest and its organisers. You don’t seem to understand that idea.

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:32

MargoLivebetter · 26/11/2024 15:20

I listened to the Institute of Fiscal Services podcast about this to try and sidestep the hyperbole and get some facts.

I loathe Jeremy Clarkson. Even his farming programme annoys the hell out of me, as I come from an agricultural background and can see so much of it is play farming for the cameras. Whilst the programme has raised public awareness of farming it has also made a shit ton of money for Clarkson. I don't think he did it as a public service!!!!

If you have an inequitable tax system, then people will use it to legally avoid paying tax. The existing inheritance tax on agricultural land has created exactly this issue. Wealthy people have bought up agricultural land to avoid inheritance tax. I spent years working in or on the fringes of the City and knew plenty of loaded old City boys who bought agricultural land with a tenant farmer precisely to avoid inheritance tax. There are plenty of more well publicised individuals to know that this exact issue exists.

Personally, I think we need to look at how we farm in the UK and how we want to farm and we need to consider how best to achieve the farming outcome that is required. Do we want to be more self-sufficient, do we want to produce food more efficiently, do we want economies of scale in farming? Without a properly considered food production policy, then we are only ever tinkering around at the edges.

I do think that the existing inequities in inheritance tax were undesirable. I'm not sure that the allowances proposed are quite right, but as the Government has yet to announce the finer details, I'm hoping there will be some room for manouvre and organisations like the NFU are feeding into the process.

I definitely think that populists like Jeremy Clarkson and that utter wanker, Nigel Garage should be quiet and not stir the pot. The only people they are interested in are themselves.

The more I read the more I think this is a regional situation. Where we farm it’s ’smaller’ family farms owned by the farmer. My wider family have been farming in this county for hundreds of years. People like my cousin (nearly eighty). He was kicked in the face by a cow and drove himself to hospital with blood streaming down his face. Those sort of people.

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:25

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:22

Truly baffling. 🙄

Have you ever had to try and persuade someone of your point of view? If not, understand that you are unlikely to be successful if you run up with a group of people who say “I don’t like you”. That is totally basic. Governments don’t usually respond well to it; they usually double down.

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:23

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 15:18

@bombastix if the NFU screwed up or indeed if the protests were a bad idea why are the government and the NFU currently in talks to resolve the issue?

I don’t want to say that government ministers won’t talk to farmers. They will. Whether they change anything is another matter. All I hear is a government maintaining a public line.

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:22

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:17

@derxa well, it’s pretty obvious to me that if you want to persuade government ministers then it’s a foolish thing to do to have a protest outside at the same time with a group of politicians and individuals who dislike them. That is just basic stuff. Being heard has made no difference- I assume the protest would have made a difficult meeting even more so, and so I feel a bit sorry for the NFU officials who had to go in. They were there to really try and change things in which case the protest was unhelpful (like I say, support declined for farmers afterwards). You want to influence, you start thinking what you can have in common.

Truly baffling. 🙄

MargoLivebetter · 26/11/2024 15:20

I listened to the Institute of Fiscal Services podcast about this to try and sidestep the hyperbole and get some facts.

I loathe Jeremy Clarkson. Even his farming programme annoys the hell out of me, as I come from an agricultural background and can see so much of it is play farming for the cameras. Whilst the programme has raised public awareness of farming it has also made a shit ton of money for Clarkson. I don't think he did it as a public service!!!!

If you have an inequitable tax system, then people will use it to legally avoid paying tax. The existing inheritance tax on agricultural land has created exactly this issue. Wealthy people have bought up agricultural land to avoid inheritance tax. I spent years working in or on the fringes of the City and knew plenty of loaded old City boys who bought agricultural land with a tenant farmer precisely to avoid inheritance tax. There are plenty of more well publicised individuals to know that this exact issue exists.

Personally, I think we need to look at how we farm in the UK and how we want to farm and we need to consider how best to achieve the farming outcome that is required. Do we want to be more self-sufficient, do we want to produce food more efficiently, do we want economies of scale in farming? Without a properly considered food production policy, then we are only ever tinkering around at the edges.

I do think that the existing inequities in inheritance tax were undesirable. I'm not sure that the allowances proposed are quite right, but as the Government has yet to announce the finer details, I'm hoping there will be some room for manouvre and organisations like the NFU are feeding into the process.

I definitely think that populists like Jeremy Clarkson and that utter wanker, Nigel Garage should be quiet and not stir the pot. The only people they are interested in are themselves.

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 15:18

@bombastix if the NFU screwed up or indeed if the protests were a bad idea why are the government and the NFU currently in talks to resolve the issue?

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:17

@derxa well, it’s pretty obvious to me that if you want to persuade government ministers then it’s a foolish thing to do to have a protest outside at the same time with a group of politicians and individuals who dislike them. That is just basic stuff. Being heard has made no difference- I assume the protest would have made a difficult meeting even more so, and so I feel a bit sorry for the NFU officials who had to go in. They were there to really try and change things in which case the protest was unhelpful (like I say, support declined for farmers afterwards). You want to influence, you start thinking what you can have in common.

taxguru · 26/11/2024 15:17

DogInATent · 26/11/2024 15:01

You're saying it's trivial.

You're saying that one person evading millions is less damaging to society than millions evading a few thousand each.

Spoken like a true accountant that understands the cost of everything but the value of nothing. As long as the one gets away with millions, you will never persuade the millions to pay the thousands.

Which is why you need proper policing of the laws - everyone will try to "get away" with what they can if you let them. Tax evasion and the black economy is a growing industry ever since the various tax bodies were merged which was an absolute cock up and left very little in the way of effective "policing" of tax matters.

taxguru · 26/11/2024 15:14

Alphaalga · 26/11/2024 15:00

Clarkson, like most if not all farmers, is a tory-voting ignoramus happy to put his hand up for policies which put more money in his pocket by decimating the long-term economy, ignoring climate-change and pinning the blame on those with next to nothing and the labour party.

Endorsement from such a twit would look like the kiss of death to anyone with any decency or self-respect.

I think its more Labour and Reeves who are "decimating the economy" by their tax hikes on business!

derxa · 26/11/2024 15:11

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:03

Really. Then that was a very bad decision indeed. In which case I feel sorry for the NFU. They were not to blame so I hope my correction stands.

What a strange viewpoint and why do you care?

notanothernamechange24 · 26/11/2024 15:10

@bombastix it wasn't a bad decision at all! Farmers were going to turn up on mass anyway. They are angry and needed to be heard. The team headed up by Olly organised a location for people to meet completely with the consent of the police.
It gave them a focus and an opportunity to be heard.
The rally was held successfully. The farmer cleaned up the streets behind them and organised a mass food bank donation of tons of food to go to london food banks.

Jeremy Clarkson is damaging farmers
Jeremy Clarkson is damaging farmers
derxa · 26/11/2024 15:09

bombastix · 26/11/2024 14:59

Give Clarkson his due. He doesn’t want to be a politician or a spokesman for anyone but himself. The NFU needed a better plan than this; it was a screw up.

The previous chair of the nfu was more effective. Minette Batters. The current incumbent is less so. It wasn’t a screw up though. It made the national news and has sparked a nationwide debate.

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 26/11/2024 15:09

We need food, end of. Farmers produce our food. If we rely more and more on foreign imports (as we did from Ukraine for certain things) we are heading for disaster.
If farms attract inheritance tax and they have to keep selling off land to pay tax, farland gets smaller and smaller a d supply of home grown food gets less and less.
Its madness in my opinion.
No such thing as bad publicity abd that's what Clarkson is giving the farmers.

bombastix · 26/11/2024 15:03

RedPony1 · 26/11/2024 15:01

The rally/protest was nothing to do with NFU... it was independently put on by a handful of famers, spear headed by Olly Harrison (Olly Blogs) just so happens on the same day NFU were holding meetings with members and ministers....

Really. Then that was a very bad decision indeed. In which case I feel sorry for the NFU. They were not to blame so I hope my correction stands.

RedPony1 · 26/11/2024 15:02

cardibach · 26/11/2024 14:58

It really doesn’t. It’s one opinion, which is worth reading, but it doesn’t provide any evidence and a lot of it looks t9 be lifted from (probably partisan) sources.

It's real life information from the people on the ground. I don't know anyone that would disagree with anything that was written.