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AIBU to think it’s too soon to for the school to be diagnosis autism

111 replies

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:24

I am writing this on behalf of my friend ( who knows ) I have a daughter with SEN needs EHCP etc but even I am struggling to understand exactly what’s going on with the school and friends DS.
We will call him George.

George is 4, summer born ( end of August ) started primary school September, previously went to private nursery from 9-6 4 days a week due to work commitments.
he was fine in nursery, no issues raised. Performed in the graduation assembly fine etc ( relevant later on ) development checks were all normal during toddler years etc

with in the first week of starting school mum was called in because they said he wasn’t where the curriculum needed him to be and didn’t have focus.
he struggled to settle in the mornings, they asked her to drop him off late and pick him up early ( 15 minutes either way )
by the end of the second week they told her that they were removing him from class and putting him in with the nursery kids and then sent her leaflets via email about parenting and autism.
they then called her in a few times to discuss putting him on the Sen register.
last week they called her in to tell her that he wasn’t going to be included in the nativity plays and to keep him at home for the 2 days as he will get nothing from it and won’t conform and other parents will be there.
today they have phoned her to say that they can no longer have him in the afternoons and can only attend the morning.

his only been at school 11 weeks and she is beside her self not understanding what’s going wrong.
when she asks they say his too far behind the curriculum and doesn’t focus.
they talk about him like he 100 percent had autism - she doesn’t mind of course if he does but she is worried that they have come to this conclusion too fast without giving him a chance to settle.

OP posts:
snowdropsy · 25/11/2024 22:47

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:39

No mainstream state school, he was previously in a private nursery.

Well, I would seriously encourage your friend to try a different school.

”not where he needs to be” raises serious red flags for me.
Why does he “need” to be anywhere? Good teachers should meet the children where they are at, and go at the child's pace. Not expect the children to be keeping pace with the teacher and excluding the ones who can’t!
Seriously, I work in education and it sounds like the ethos in this school is more about what makes the teachers’ lives easier than what is in the best interests of the individual child. I would jump ship right away and not look back.

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:46

WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:43

No she cant
he has already started
a deferral is a formal process and it not automatic

if he is withdrawn now then he would risk needing to find a new school and risk having to go straight into year -

And there is still time in this application cycle to withdraw and apply for a deferred entry.

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:44

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:42

She isn’t in denial and if he has any Sen needs then she will do what she has to do ( she has a severely disabled 3 year old ) which is more severe health needs. She is a great parent I think she is feeling very overwhelmed because there was never the issues before and all of a sudden have been thrown at her. Today’s timetable decision was literally a phone call, no meeting or anything.

Withdraw him from school and put him back into nursery. There is still time to find a new setting and apply for reception for next September. He may well be an entirely different child in a few months time with age on his side.

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:43

Barney16 · 25/11/2024 22:41

In regard to exclusion there's no legal requirement for children to be in school until the term after their fifth birthday so it's a tricky one, he doesn't have a legal entitlement to ft. Lots and lots of parents defer summer born children so they start reception the year after. It's a very good idea. Four is very young for the requirements of school. ASD can't be diagnosed by school only by an educational psychologist. Not sitting on the carpet, well that depends how long he's been asked to sit for, one minute per year is a good rule of thumb. He could have ASD but he could just be little, all the things you describe are perfectly ok if you are four. I think your friend needs to go in and see the teacher.

It’s not true as parents the legal age to send your child to school is the term after their 5th birthday but legally they are entitled to a full time education from the term after their 4th birthday

OP posts:
WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:43

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:40

Yes she can. The child doesn't need to be in education until the age of 5 and is legally entitled to start in reception.

No she cant
he has already started
a deferral is a formal process and it not automatic

if he is withdrawn now then he would risk needing to find a new school and risk having to go straight into year -

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:42

She isn’t in denial and if he has any Sen needs then she will do what she has to do ( she has a severely disabled 3 year old ) which is more severe health needs. She is a great parent I think she is feeling very overwhelmed because there was never the issues before and all of a sudden have been thrown at her. Today’s timetable decision was literally a phone call, no meeting or anything.

OP posts:
2toomanycats · 25/11/2024 22:42

i can imagine how confused she must be. From what you’ve said they sound like they’re not communicating well at all. However I do think there must be more to it than she is understanding. Having worked in schools for a long time, what you have described is not unusual (the behaviour from the child I mean) and not just for new starters. It really does take a lot before a reduced timetable and mention of SEN registers.

Barney16 · 25/11/2024 22:41

In regard to exclusion there's no legal requirement for children to be in school until the term after their fifth birthday so it's a tricky one, he doesn't have a legal entitlement to ft. Lots and lots of parents defer summer born children so they start reception the year after. It's a very good idea. Four is very young for the requirements of school. ASD can't be diagnosed by school only by an educational psychologist. Not sitting on the carpet, well that depends how long he's been asked to sit for, one minute per year is a good rule of thumb. He could have ASD but he could just be little, all the things you describe are perfectly ok if you are four. I think your friend needs to go in and see the teacher.

Devilsmommy · 25/11/2024 22:40

Are they trying to get her to defer him because he's summer born and maybe still acts very young compared to the rest of the class?

ellenpartridge · 25/11/2024 22:40

I would seriously be looking at moving school. This sounds appalling!

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:40

WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:37

No she cant
that is really poor advice

Edited

Yes she can. The child doesn't need to be in education until the age of 5 and is legally entitled to start in reception.

Peopleinmyphone · 25/11/2024 22:40

My child struggled to sit still for long periods of time and the school implemented things like a wobble cushion and fidget toys, movement breaks etc...
They need to meet his needs and it sounds like they haven't tried and gone straight to a limited timetable which is usually a last resort.

Tessiebeare · 25/11/2024 22:39

He sounds like he could have benefited from being deferred to be honest. I’m in Scotland where deferrals are common place particularly for littles ones whose birthdays are near the cut off. Would it be possible to remove him from school and have him return to nursery and try again next year?
The flexible school admissions for summer borns Facebook page might be useful.

Sonolanona · 25/11/2024 22:39

And yes...not enough evidence for an EHCP and yet they are excluding him... fuck that. She can and should insist on him being in full time... if they can't cope, either they are shit or he definitely has enough evidence!!!

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:39

snowdropsy · 25/11/2024 22:36

Sounds like a terrible school tbh, I would seriously consider sending him somewhere more inclusive and with a healthier attitude towards child development . Is it private / are they used to hot-housed children?
It doesn’t sound like somewhere I would want to send my child.

Edited

No mainstream state school, he was previously in a private nursery.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 25/11/2024 22:38

Apart from the fact a school can't diagnose autism... They can only suggest there's an issue (which there clearly is) and that autism is a possibility.

They then will assume autism whilst an assessment is in progress. Otherwise kids are left in limbo for years having a massive impact on the rest of the class.

The formal assessment may find nothing. In the meantime two years has passed and things have improved.

Or the formal assessment may say yes and then it will all be formalised. But there has still been early intervention which will help the situation getting worse in the meantime.

So if the school is saying there's a problem. There's a problem.

Going into denial about this is only going to cause problems - regardless of the actual outcome of the formal assessment. And you've lost years whilst in denial.

Reasonably it's probably going to be the best part of 18 months to two years before you get to the diagnosis stage. Take this as a gift and work with it as they will give him more support now. (Which if it isn't autism isn't going to harm anyway - cos there's clearly SOMETHING going on).

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:38

We are very close friends and recently had a 10 day holiday with each other.
He is an extremely confident loving little boy, talks well but he can have some meltdowns not like constantly but when he does he struggles to come out of them.

OP posts:
WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:37

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:36

If he's late August can she withdraw him and put him in for reception next year? It sounds like it's a maturity issue, once that has been explored then she may need to accept additional help is required to support him.

No she cant
that is really poor advice

Sonolanona · 25/11/2024 22:37

That sounds quite extreme tbh.
I work in special ed, and while children can be flagged up as having potential SEN fairly quickly it sounds like they are really concerned to be cutting his days in half. Presumably as he is only just four he doesn't have to be in full tine education until the term of his 5th birthday but to telling her they won't have him in would make me wonder if they are oversubscribed/understaffed and he is needing 1:1 support at all times.
What ARE the issues? That he 'isn't conforming'? What does that mean...that he can't sit still at carpet time, or that he is running around the class screaming and attacking children?
Where in the curriculum does he 'need to be'? Early years should be more play based learning with some phonics and maths thrown in! Does he have communication problems, behaviour issues, what?!
If she doesn't, your friend needs very specific clarity on what exactly the issues are , and how exactly they intend to address them, and whether he needs to have an Ed Psych in and EHCP applied for... if they are being overdramatic it will soon be apparent.
He's JUST 4...barely more than a toddler, of course he is likely to be less developed across all areas than kids who are already 5!

Dreamingofdreaming · 25/11/2024 22:36

If he's late August can she withdraw him and put him in for reception next year? It sounds like it's a maturity issue, once that has been explored then she may need to accept additional help is required to support him.

PadstowGirl · 25/11/2024 22:36

Blimey, "even" SEN kids are entitled to an education. 😖

snowdropsy · 25/11/2024 22:36

Sounds like a terrible school tbh, I would seriously consider sending him somewhere more inclusive and with a healthier attitude towards child development . Is it private / are they used to hot-housed children?
It doesn’t sound like somewhere I would want to send my child.

CourageTrouble · 25/11/2024 22:35

WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:33

Its an illegal exclusion
both the part days and the 2 days off
ask to speak to the head
state that he will be attending full time and on those days
ask what sen specialists have been consulted from the la and why parent was not included in any meeting with them that decided a part time timetable ( probably hasnt been one but a school should only implement on specialist advice and in agreement of parents)

Yes I questioned why they would not be seeking a ehcp. They said there is not enough evidence for an EHCP.

OP posts:
WhitbyBee · 25/11/2024 22:33

Its an illegal exclusion
both the part days and the 2 days off
ask to speak to the head
state that he will be attending full time and on those days
ask what sen specialists have been consulted from the la and why parent was not included in any meeting with them that decided a part time timetable ( probably hasnt been one but a school should only implement on specialist advice and in agreement of parents)