AIBU to think it’s too soon to for the school to be diagnosis autism

Or maybe, just maybe, the child isn’t coping, the school isn’t coping, the rest of the class is suffering disruption and the child would benefit from a reduced timetable…

Putting a child on a reduced timetable to benefit the school/others is unlawful

Putting a child on a part time table before you've exhausted every single other option is unlawful

Excluding (formally) a send child before attempting everything possible to meet their needs them is unlawful

Excluding (informally) is unlawful

It baffles me that any state school doesn't have enough experience of kids who start school somewhat bouncy and immature, whether that is indicative of lifelong SN and SEN or not, to have an armoury of strategies to help them settle in and cope with the routine rather than just managing them out the first chance they get.

Reception class should still be offering a balance of structured activity and free play, anyhow and have the staffing to manage a range of needs.

This. Lots of schools - out of desperation, mostly - are doing this "reduced timetable" thing to keep SEN students out of the way as much as possible. It's presented to parents as not only legal but something they have no right to challenge. It's outrageous, it's illegal and you do not have to agree to it. This child is entitled to a full time state education. It happens because schools are underfunded and don't have sufficient support staff, but it's not the individual SEN student's responsibility to solve it, nor is it the parents'. Schools know they are breaking the law. They just think you don't know.

They sound absolutely dreadful but I suspect they are not making up the issues. I’d be looking at getting him diagnosed and then find a supportive school. All schools are not equal. It is entirely down to the combination of leadership and individual staff members. Best off getting feedback locally from parents in similar situations and I suggest canvassing a range of opinions because not all parental experiences are the same either.

Gosh…

well firstly I would be refusing reduced timetable -

Ask for a meeting - reception is learning through play so I am concerned how much sitting he needs to do .

They absolutely won’t have enough evidence for an Echp - however in order for an echp there needs to show they have put support in place and his needs can’t be met .

I don’t even understand why he won’t benefit - even if he does have autism ( they can’t diagnose) doesn’t mean they don’t benefit .

I would ask for a meeting and ask what support they are putting in place.. Ask how they are applying inclusivity.

I wouldn’t dismiss moving him either at this point he is entitled to an education .

I have a child with fairly severe Sen who is currently in mainstream school. Potentially your friend should take the reports on her DS seriously but the school sound like they have acted terribly. Your friend should arrange a meeting with the senco and head asap. They should be giving a lot more detail of the issues they are having with him.
My DD’s school wanted her to come home at lunch times every day at one point but we were able to discuss and come up with some reasonable adjustments for her to be there all day. It’s completely unfair for them to just state he can’t be there for half the day especially with barely any explanation.
If it were me I’d be looking around at other schools, this one doesn’t sound like they will be able to support him, whatever the needs are.
There are actually some schools out there who will go over and above for children who have Sen or potentially could just be struggling at school. School shouldn’t be making any diagnoses either, it’s not for them to decide and they do not have that expertise.

Firstly they are excluding him- there are specific steps for this which do not appear to be being followed. Also if autism is being queried Disability Discrimination could be considered. By the way Autism cannot be diagnosed by a teacher - what evidence do they have?
He's not where they need him to be? What does this mean exactly? What do they expect from him?
He is just 4years old. Some children in that class will be nearly 5, a huge difference in terms of perfectly normal development. Schools seem to be lacking basic knowledge of child development and are too much concerned with their stats rather than understanding individual children

This sounds very concerning to me. If his needs are so complex that they are seemingly unable to meet them then they should be getting external professionals in asap. Alternatively it could be that he needs some additional support and differentiation to make the learning environment accessible to him but instead they are choosing to exclude him which will only push him further behind. A meeting with the senco would be very beneficial I think.

Two options spring to mind:

a) move him and hope the next setting is better and won’t illegally exclude him or

b) dreadful as they sound, be glad they’ve picked up on autism being a possibility and enlist their support in starting the EHCNA process (your friend can also do this herself as a parent but will need to gather evidence). If they try and fob her off, persist.

In any case, she needs to get EVERYTHING in writing for the record. Save any emails, follow up any conversations with an email (“on X date you stated X… if I don’t hear otherwise I will take this as an accurate representation of our conversation about George”, etc.)

Once they know she’s onto them and is collecting evidence they’ll probably get their act together pretty quickly. Also, it may be possible he’s autistic but as pp have said, schools can’t diagnose autism.

Lastly, has your friend done her research on autism? It’s very possible for a child to have all the lovely traits you describe and still be autistic. Sometimes it becomes more obvious when there’s been a change of setting (we autistic people tend not to like change!)

disgusting behaviour from the school - sounds like the majority of 4 year olds!

Not necessarily
starting the cycle again does not mean that they will get a deferred entry and it can be very counterproductive if the child is on a specialist pathway

She should point out if they think he has Sen and are excluding him from activities and school because of his needs it's discrimination.

I would advise your friend to get in touch with the LA and defer his place. Possibly to a new school. He doesn't have to be in school yet and it doesn't sound like it's going well. Yes, it's not automatic but I think your friend could make a good case. He would with a deferred place begin in reception in September 2025.

Tbf that, other than behind the curriculum, describes ds in year R. He was diagnosed with adhd and asd aged 13, and I wish I had pushed the schools and not listened when they said "he's a summer boy, just needs a bit of time and he'll be fine".

The child can be withdrawn and they can start the cycle again.

He absolutely does have the right to a full time education as per the school admissions code. That entitlement is from the start of the September term after he turns four.

This is really, really bad practice from the school. I’d be having very firm words especially about the nativity. That’s just rubbish. If they believe her child has SEN or autism and they are doing this, well, that could potentially be disability discrimination. It sounds like they don’t have a basic grip on what is legal.

This school are penalising this child for being 4, it's disgraceful.

It is not my guidance and that isnt what it says
the admission authority decide but the child has already been admitted

The LA is not necessarily the admission authority

How can there be enough evidence to exclude him but not to help him?

the world has gone mad

Or maybe, just maybe, the child isn’t coping, the school isn’t coping, the rest of the class is suffering disruption and the child would benefit from a reduced timetable…

If in England, she can contact her local Sendiass for advice. Google IASS and her LA name. She should also push for a Sen support plan. School can get EP, SALT etc to come and assess. IPSEA is a good website for more into. It’s called the graduated approach. While she could make a parental request for an EHC needs assessment, there isn’t much evidence. And the same can be said for a part time timetable: they are unlawful, and should be time limited with specific target identified.

importantly, if she has any niggling SEND concerns, get school to refer him, waiting lists are long. Although coping well at nursery, there can be difficulties at primary - bigger class sizes and less small group support, harder work.

And by your own guidance parents should speak to the local authority to apply for a deferral which is what I am recommending. The child is not 5 so doesn't legally have to be in school yet and the deadline for applications for next September aren't yet. She has time to make enquiries and apply.

deferred entry is not automatic
read the guidance I have posted

He has the right to a full time education. I’m appalled by this. She needs to refuse the illegal exclusion. She needs to school to put everything they’ve said in the phone call in writing (for evidence). She needs to demand a meeting to find out what strategies have been put in place to meet his needs. But at no point can they declare he can’t come in for the school play, can’t be involved in the school play and can’t do afternoons. That’s insane. Tell the school to put it all in writing- I’d be amazed if they did. The local authority inclusion team would be horrified.