AIBU to think it’s too soon to for the school to be diagnosis autism

Haven't read all the posts but I'm not sure this is legal. My school would never get away with doing any of this. Every single child has to be included, even if it's to the child's detriment.

Nobody at a school is qualified to officially diagnose autism.

My diagnosis (for which I need no qualifications) would be 'Little boy who is the youngest in his year group and they are measuring his progress without taking account of it'.

Your poor friend! This might be impacting on his little brother too, it’s quite likely the difficulty leaving mum in the morning and asking for lots of hugs has something to do with the upset at home. School needs to show some compassion (and frankly, common sense).

I did private nursery to state primary school for DS with undiagnosed autism and it was a problem for us. DS had been well settled in a small private nursery who'd known him for years and none of us had any idea he had a problem. The transition to school was sharp, it was a huge step up for him, and DS couldn't handle it. He became extremely challenging and the school had no warning at all. The school did not love us for that! (But they did the right things, unlike your friend's school.) The school did say that if he'd been to their pre-school first they would have picked up his issues.

My DC was older and we were in Scotland so we had different options. But I would say to your friend, whatever she does, keep him on the pathway for assessments and support. Don't just assume he'll grow out of it, he may be young but unless he's the only 4 year old in the class they will be comparing his development to what's normal for his age.

And yes this does sound to me like an illegal exclusion. Could your friend consult IPSEA? www.ipsea.org.uk/ They have a phoneline plus good informaiton on their website. They're good on what's an illegal exclusion and what to do about it.

And with his sibling's seriously health issues the school really do need to step up and be supportive to her and her DC. That's an additional need in itself. Has she talked to the school about that?

to your friend and to you for supporting her.

I'm the mother of a very late August born DD who is now in year 2. In reception I was told she didn't know when it was appropriate for her not to shout out so was often at the front of the class with the teacher. They also wanted to get her something to sit on as she was fidgeting and would often get up and walk around.

Beginning of year 1 we were told she had some adhd traits because she was still struggling to stay still and not talk over teachers etc,

Beginning of year 2, she's now 6 (nearly a year younger than a lot of her class), her teacher told me she's doing brilliantly academically. I asked if she was still being disruptive and he was genuinely surprised by the question. I explained what we'd been told in year 1 and he said he had absolutely no worries. She does still get up for a wander but year 1 to year 2 is a big transition (lots of sitting) so he wasn't surprised.

What is going on at your friends school side awful. That poor boy. I don't know enough about SEN provision but somebody might need to remind the school he's just turned 4.

My daughter went to school having never studied phonics. She could count and write her first name but that was about it, what exactly are they expecting from him?!

I think it's ridiculous. I remember in my DD's class there were several children on the 'watch and wait' list and about 50% don't meet the criteria now. My daughter does and has her assessment this year after a four year wait. Might as well go on the waiting list but don't feel that this a diagnosis at this stage. I didn't and still don't say that my DD is autistic. Not that ashamed or in denial, she probably does but until you are diagnosed how do you know?

Are the school taking the home situation into account. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to have a sibling that has long term health problems never mind being 4 in that situation and starting school all at the same time.

Are there any schools with enhanced resources? I have an August born and chose an ER school as they seemed more child focussed and wanted to work with my daughter to help her settle and get to where she needs to be. She's only the size of a 2 year old and is very quiet they keep an eye on her physically and will put in adjustments if needed and have given her a carpet space at the front and near the teacher. They have a classroom for kids with additional needs and they are able to be in mainstream education when it beneficial to them and then have the extra support when they need as well. It doesn't sound the most supportive of schools and if it is or isn't autism it doesn't sound like they are going to be in a position be a positive influence on this child in which case it would be best to find a setting where this child can thrive whether that is in a reception class or dropping back to a preschool setting.

This

It depends on the school. Sadly a lot of schools just see SEND as a nuisance.

There’s nothing there to suggest autism in your post at least, there must be more traits they are seeing, but certainly not understanding letters, numbers and phonics on its own has anything to do with autism in isolation. In fact many autistic children are good a decoding symbols but have poor social understanding…

Also, no school should be suggesting an actual diagnosable condition, even if they think it autism could be a possibility, it’s morally questionable that they would be throwing the A word around. My son is almost certainly autistic and is on the diagnosis pathway at 3 years old, but no one who has worked with him in a professional capacity has mentioned the actual word itself because they are not qualified to suggest it.

All your friend can do is follow suggestions for going down the referral pathway but you also need a lot of evidence or else the referral will simply be rejected.

Whether there is undiagnosed sen or not this school sounds horrible and uncaring. I'm not surprised he gets upset going in, he probably senses he is being treated differently. They can't just unilaterally decide he had autism. Where is the referral for diagnosis, the support plan, the ehcp application if they are so sure.

The school can't diagnose anything theu can flag up up concerns
She needs a meeting with the SENCO to find out what's going on are they going to apply for an EHCP etc .

She can but why should she ?

Can she ask to observe? He’s literally only JUST 4! How long are they expecting him to sit still for?? Good grief, I feel really sorry for your friend. And the school are behaving appallingly. If there’s enough evidence to send him home (extremely unlikely from your description imo) there’s enough evidence for an ehcp (possible, but oh wait, the school would have to provide part the funding…)

The school should have the boy logged on the additional needs register and should be developing a plan to support him. That may include a number of different strategies- fidget toy, visual timetable, wobble cushion, time out for respite, suitably differentiated tasks.

It is possible to have a very short term reduced timetable, but it must be tightly planned and time bonded and not be open ended. Probably no more than one or two weeks. What they’re currently planning is, as has been said, an illegal exclusion.

There is no reason why a parent can’t apply for a needs assessment, EHCNA, that may or may not ultimately lead to an EHCP. It’s early in the school year, so there may not be the evidence to support an application at this stage, especially as there were no reported issues in nursery and the school appears to be dealing with this by putting it back to the parent.

I think your friend should consider several options

Ask for a meeting with the class teacher and head teacher, in which both parties can explain what the issues are, on both sides. Follow that up with an email, detailing what was discussed and what the outcomes would be and how they will be measured.

If they insist on a reduced timetable contact the governors and the local authority and express concern that these are illegal exclusions

Contact SEN organisations as has been mentioned and ask their advice.

Investigate whether there are any local schools with places who may be more in tune and sympathetic to the child’s needs.

I struggle to believe that his previous nursery raised zero concerns yet school seem so concerned they are dramatically reducing his timetable!?

Sounds like school need to have a meeting with your friend and actually go through in detail what they feel the issues are and how they can meet his needs.

fobbing them off with a reduced timetable is not overly helpful.

What really stood out to me is that they want him removed from the Nativity play " because other parents will be there". That really does not sound very inclusive to me. I agree with what many posters have said about him being illegally excluded.

The school shouldn't be diagnosing anything or implementing strategies such as reduced timetables without the involvement of a specialist.

@Peopleinmyphone
@CourageTrouble what you tell your friend to do is everytime she takes a call she sends an email recapping. Further to your call...
The exclusion is enough evidence. A reduced timetable is also only to be used when there is a clear plan and only for a limited time.

Had she been in touch with the nursery to ask if they'd had any concerns about him?

She needs to move him to a better school.

my DS (5) is also a summer baby- late June- and on the autism pathway. He is incredibly academically competent, and in most areas is ahead of the curriculum- but struggles socially, which impacts how he accesses the classroom.

He really struggled at his preschool (he was in with the reception class) but we moved him to a different school for reception and the difference in him was amazing.

This first term the staff should be making the effort to get to know your friend’s son. It is far too early for them to be writing him off like this. If her son is anything like mine, getting an accurate picture during assessment is near impossible if they haven’t first built a bond and worked out how to engage/motivate them.

It takes time to understand any child, but one who is potentially on the spectrum, can often take more ‘work’ to bond with. It’s easy to not see past the mask that they often put up. If they’re so quick to pass him off to others (moving him down to nursery/reducing timetable) and excluding him from activities, I’m not sure they’re people I would trust to care for him.

She needs to demand an email. When they’re talking on the phone, she needs to say to them that she wants it all in writing. Over and over again. She needs to be firm and insist. They can’t illegally exclude a child from school. Tell her to literally reply to everything they say on the phone that she needs it in writing. Even if she feels really awkward.

I think your friend needs professional advice, quickly. The school are acting in an appalling manner. They are excluding him - they will argue they are not because they are doing so unlawfully and banking on her not knowing her son’s rights. To say he shouldn’t attend for the two days of the nativity yet also say he doesn’t need an EHCNA? Appalling. They are trying to push him out. And frankly I’d let them because the chance of this school having a change of heart and being supportive is nil. I’d want my child in a school which wants to help him. Yes, I know school budgets and staffing are stretched, but there is a vast difference between how they handle it and some just don’t want SEN kids making life harder for them.

I would recommend she talk to SENDIASS (search for it plus her area). Seek advice from other SEN parents in her area, if she doesn’t know any then there’ll be a Facebook group. If she can pay, consider a Sunshine Support advocate.

It is possible, but not easy or guaranteed, to pull out a summer born child at this stage and start them in reception again. “Flexible school admissions for summer Borns” is a Facebook group with really experienced parents who can advise how to apply.

Schools should support and apply for EHCP on basis of need, not diagnosis. Alongside this should sit a referral to a diagnostic service.

Lots and lots of parents defer summer born children so they start reception the year after. It's a very good idea. Four is very young for the requirements of school.

People always say this on here, in RL the only people i know who've deferred had children who were noticeably behind who later were diagnosed with some sort of sen.

Reception is all play based.

My late august DC was absolutely fine. The vast majority of children are fine within their age cohort at school.