AIBU to think it’s too soon to for the school to be diagnosis autism

I'd love state school to be more inclusive of SEND and some schools can do this. But my DC are only children for a short time and in a geographical area.

DC1 was harmed by his experience - not being diagnosed and able to access specialist education until too late. He is now unlikely to ever work or live independently. This has impacted on me. I can't work and am his full time carer. Maybe it would have always played out like this but maybe it's due to failure in early intervention?

DS2 had a different experience due to me. I saw which way the wind was blowing. They only called in the EP because they thought the fact he struggled with speech would reveal low IQ but when it revealed 'genius' levels said it was irrelevant.

I got an ECHP and then homeschooled with internet school back up funded by the LA from secondary. Took a tribunal and lawyers. But he is now doing so masters degree in mechanical engineering and is now likely to work and live independently.

The best thing for my mental health was not being embroiled in a constant battle with 'school'. Ime they will dig their heels in to deny responsibility. They will blame your child. They will blame you. They will make malicious referrals to SS.

I could have stayed and fought but at what cost to myself and my son?

We need politicians with no skin in the game to fight this battle.

If his needs are so great that they think they have to illegally exclude the school should be applying for an EHCP.

All these things are fixable, but needs more time in school not less.

Speak to head of eyfs, then head teacher, then governors.

See my post above.

There's no way he'll be the only one in a class of thirty.

For fun? No. Because he’s harder work than they like so are refusing to have him in school? Yes. Absolutely,

If it really was just this, the school would be saying 4 or 5 children in every reception class were SEN. Every year. That's frankly just implausible.

They've singled this child out FOR A REASON however you cut it.

Whether that's autism remains to be seen but he clearly needs extra help at the moment.

Trying to force him out of the school or reduce his hours is something completely separate and a different point.

There must be something they are identifying as not simply being immature compared to the other children.

Being in denial of this, won't help, even if there is an issue with how the school are handling it and even if he's not ultimately diagnosed as autistic.

Engage. Find out what's really going on and get the appropriate support.

My birthday is 30th August and I also have a DD with ASD (which was pointed out to me when she was only in nursery) so I can really relate to this. ASD aside however, speaking as a late summer born child, I ended up losing a lot of my education thanks to my parents' refusal to hold me back a year. It didn't become a big problem until high school but I absolutely, categorically shouldn't have started school until the year after.
Anyway, I would suggest to your friend that she looks into if it's possible to defer his start until next September as they don't have to legally be in education until they're 5 anyway.
Trust me, it will help him so, so much. Sounds like he's not ready.
Re: Autism, deferring him will give your friend time to determine for herself whether she believes there's any sign of difficulties, which there very well may not be.
However if there is, not only will this allow time for all the many appointments involved in that process before you even get onto the waiting list for assessments, but if your friend doesn't defer and he is Autistic (if) then oh boy will he struggle at school if he's not ready AND Autistic.
Best of luck. Pm me if you'd like

Is this a state primary? This seems really extreme and very unusual as lots of children must be like this in reception. Unless thus child is massively dysregulated and it's hugely disruptive or unsafe.

I'm usually very willing to give schools the benefit of the doubt but I'm pretty sure the nativity thing is if not illegal is at least very much against best practice.

It is also very unusual to move a child down a year. Children should be met where they are especially in the early years.

I would be asking for a lot of clarification if I was your friend.

If she is in England or Scotland, as frustrating as this may be for her, she is in a position thousands battle to be in. If they are taking it as seriously as wooded in op chances are they are reaching out to a multitude of professionals to compose a plan. But she needs to go in and figure out if this is the case

Two separate issues. He may be showing SEN which often comes to the forefront in primary. ADHD in particular often shows itself by year 1/2 as the more ridged expectations of the classroom has an adverse effect on an ND child.

However, I had a very similar experience to this with my eldest school, and I would say to your friend to please transfer him elsewhere. My kids dad refused to agree as was heel digging about needing settling in time, by the time he saw just how badly the school could manage SEN, he was too settled to want to move. Also had them try the shortened school day BS yet always refuse SEN meetings so we can triangulate the best support methods. It’s been an utterly exhausting few years that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.

Long story short, better to engage with sen support and have it lessen if it’s truly not needed, but do it with a school with strong SEN support and understanding.

Ahh crikey I stopped at 'he only turned for at the end of August'.
Why, for heaven's sake did she not just send him next year?

These aren't necessarily signs of autism, could easily just be that he needs time to settle into school especially being born late August that makes him almost a year younger than some classmates.
Although I suppose to a teacher with a class of 30 the kids with Sen would stick out a lot more in contrast to their classmates.

No useful comment to add other than just how appalling that children get treated this way.

Slight tangent, but I cannot understand the hand-wringing about nativity plays. I've seen it on many threads lately.

I went to a normal state primary but it had a decent SEN unit so probably had more SEN children than most other schools. I have recently seen my mum's video of one of my nativities, and plenty of the SEN children were being notably disruptive, there were TAs on stage helping particular children, one child would hold up signs with her lines as she couldn't say them. It looked like chaos! But so lovely. I certainly remember having a good time as a child. I just can't understand who would want their child to have some perfectly choreographed nativity play at the expense of children with SEN :(

Although school shouldn't be diagnosing it wouldn't surprise me at all if this child has ASD. Going round hugging everyone at 4 whether they like it or not would be a good indicator of social behaviour that is 'off'. Also still having melt downs that he struggles to come out of. I would imagine that there's someone at school who really knows about ASD because a lot of teachers wouldn't pick it up based on that - my ds managed to get through 6 years of school before anyone questioned anything.

That said they are really wrong to exclude him informally/illegally. Here is some info from IPSEA on that:

www.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/exclusion-from-school

This is awful. My daughter was on the young side for starting school (scotland so cut-offs are different and we don't have 'reception') and although she has found some of the 'rules' more difficult than her peers and struggled socially etc, he teachers have met her at her level and it's never been an issue - she has been given a smaller role in the nativity but that's appropriate for where she is at. Obviously she is also behind some of her peers in terms of literacy etc because some of them were 5.5 when they started school and she was 4.5, nobody has flagged anything as an issue.

Similarly my middle child does have some SEN but has been supported fully and again, they have met him where he is at and supported him (and us) where it has been needed. There was a time he would start school on time, but they would take him to the nurture room for a while before he entered the classroom and do some quiet work in there with him first to get him settled. He was still in school full time but not straight into a busy classroom setting every day. This is how they can manage these things IF they have the staff and space. If thats not available at your friends son's school then she might want to look at moving him.

In scotland deferring a child is really really common, I know lots of people who have done it. Maybe it's different in England but here it normal for kids even with no SEN if they are going to be very young in the year. If it was me I would withdraw him and defer if she can, or just move schools completely now.

What I would say also is that he must be going through a lot if his sibling has been in hospital for months and the stress levels at home must be huge. This will likely be affecting his behaviour even if your friend doesn't think so. Add in starting school and being young for the year and there are a lot of factors at play which might be nothing to do with autism.

Sone asd kids can seem placid in some environments. Plus it may be that the private nursery didnt expect all kids to si for stories etc.
We had issues with dc1 at nursery, things like flooding the sinks to play. Or wanting to go outside or not come in. But school was a hugley different level. This was almost 10y ago and the school is rubbish with sen. She soent a lot of time out of class for not sitting. I think such a big class with 1-2 staff was too much with some other not well behaved other kids.
Personally im not against sen kids going part time but it should be while working towards keeping them calm and learning. There is 0 point being in school if school arent supoorting them and they get send out of the room or known as being naughty by other kids etc.

Do school know about this? He could have regressed due to trauma rather than being autistic.

It sounds counter intuitive to exclude him if he's behind, surely he needs as much teaching time as possible to help him catch up? Are they really saying he's too disruptive in the class? It sounds odd to me.

Was just going to say the same.

What they are doing isn't appropriate and they cannot proceed. Your friend should push back.

School referred dgs to speech therapy and onto autism pathway soon after he started reception. There had been no concerns at pre school. School were concerned that he had precocious speech, seemed anxious and wasn't aware when other children were being unkind to him. He is a summer baby too. Dd was upset but took him to speech therapy who saw no concerns agreeing that his speech was advanced but there were no comprehension or communication difficulties. Dd kept him on the pathway but it's a 3 year wait. Fast forward to year one and he is thriving, a different teacher and a calmer, quieter class and he's not anxious, has a lovely group of friends and he's happy and secure and loving school now. Who knows what the referral will lead to? School and dd have no concerns any longer, for him he needed to grow up a little bit I think.
Your friend should speak to GP and ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician as school can raise concerns but they can't diagnose.

I'm an ex teacher and usually sympathetic towards the school on these sorts of posts, but if I was your friend I would be looking for a different school for my DS (if that's possible - easy for me to say because I live in a city so have easy options!) The illegal exclusions, the lack a of collaborative approach and the judgements about her DS within days of starting school are all massive red flags IMO. Sorry she's having to put up with this 💐

(It may well be that her DS does have additional needs but the school's approach sounds awful.)

Well there never will be enough evidence if they keep sending him home!

the school are behaving appallingly and will continue to do so as long as they get away with it. If I were the parent I would be telling them that he will attend school the same hours as every other child in his class. If the school needs support for him then they must apply for funding for this and they need to start gathering evidence for an ehcp.

in my view (I’ve fought for 3 EHCPs) there is little need for evidence at this stage. The assessment process (once an ehcp has been applied for) gathers the evidence but in order to be assessed for an ehcp the criteria for assessment is actually very low …

whether the young child has or may have special educational needs and
whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an ehc plan.

Im really surprised that nursery didn’t pick something up if the school are claiming to have so many issues.

Your friend can request an EHCNA herself. She shouldn’t be put off from making the request by the school or anyone else saying George won’t get an EHCP. IPSEA and SOSSEN have lots of helpful information on their websites, including model letters to request an EHCNA. She should be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but far too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

In the meantime, the school should not be informally excluding DS. That is unlawful. And a part time timetable should not be used to manage behaviour. Your friend refusing to allow the school to continue to get away with informal exclusion will a) provide her with evidence of unmet needs to support her pursuing additional support, b) forces the school to follow due process, c) limit the number of days the school can suspend for, and d) allows her to challenge any exclusion.

She should follow up all verbal conversations with emails to create a paper trail as evidence.

However, if your friend wishes for her DS to attend part time or not at all, she has the right to do that for now since he is not compulsory school age.

Separate to this, is George receiving any support related to his disabled sibling? Is he known to the local young carers service? Your friend may want to contact Sibs too.

Has your friend contacted Home Start to see if they can provide support? And have they had social care assessments?

There's definitely a failure to acknowledge that a lot of his behaviour is age appropriate. Perhaps deliberately they aren't giving any allowance for it which is not on at all.

I'd still move to know which part of the (playing) curriculum he can't keep up with.