Dealing with teachers who are (imho) bullying children

😂😂😂
I shouldn’t laugh but this is so true!

Oh here’s another one! 🙄😂
Maybe the teachers actually do know best given that it’s their actual job and what they trained to do! ! Does anyone who doesn’t do your job tell you how it should be done? It’s utter bollocks to assume that there are all these nasty teachers out there in this day and age. The days of dunce caps and throwing boats rubbers are long gone! Unfortunately so are the days of parents supporting schools and disciplining their children. If you’ve been through it as you claim and have encountered several ‘nasty teachers’ then it’s more than likely that you are the problem and you refuse to accept that your little angel can do any wrong.

Of course teachers could not possibly know best. Parents and their perfect babies know best and of course they believe every word they go home and tell them. “Oh quick! Let’s get baby Sebastian Julius Arkwright-Law moved from this awful place. Can you believe they called him rude?”

It’s interesting you call someone else patronizing, when you don’t seem to have ever considered how your own tone represents your profession. And before you give me “she started it!” remember that you are the teacher, not her. It’s your job to set a good example of respectful disagreement.

Absolutely!!! Love this

Foostit - you sound like "one of those teachers". How you can call derivativation patronising when your own post smacks of a patronising attitude beggars belief. She's a concerned parent. I've been through it and met quite a few nasty teachers. So many are unprofessional and think they know best - just like you sound. Eurggh!

@derivativation Oh FFS! 🙄😂
You’re definitely ‘one of those parents’
If your child is picking up on even a fraction of your derogatory attitude towards their teachers then it figures that they will be rude to their teachers. The way you speak to people who have a different opinion to you is extremely patronising. Maybe you need to do some research. In case you hadn’t noticed there’s a major recruitment crisis in teaching at the moment and unfortunately parents like you are an increasing part of the problem. I bet you’ll be the first to complain in a few years when your DC is in danger of failing his GCSEs because there is no suitably qualified teacher to teach him.

I hope you can get your little one out of this situation op. I'm glad he has a mother who is clued in and has his back.

Couldn’t agree more @Foostit .

Whenever discussions about ‘teachers being horrible’ in some capacity are started on Mumsnet, people bring up examples from 20+ years ago of teachers doing things that simply wouldn’t and couldn’t happen in our contemporary school environment today.

Safeguarding training and implementation is much more rigorous, for starters. Policies and procedures within schools for dealing with incidents between staff and students are much more rigorous and they are inspected by Ofsted. Students have much more power within schools than parents think through initiatives such as student councils and student voice programmes that didn’t exist when I was at school 20 years ago. In many schools students are actually too empowered now. They know they will be believed and supported over their teachers. I’ve seen several colleagues have their careers destroyed over the years by vindictive students who have made up malicious claims against teachers. There are some awful teachers who shouldn’t be in the profession - yes of course - but there are also many nasty, vindictive and manipulative young people out there who will happily deflect their own failures onto a teacher and show no remorse when that teacher suffers due to their lies. Look at the teacher in France who got beheaded because a student made up lies about what he had said in class so that she would get away with not having done her work.

I’ve been teaching for a long time in a lot of different settings and I have certainly met more manipulative, bullying young people in my time than I have teachers fitting that description. The bleeding hearts on here claiming that children should always be believed etc are completely naive. Children have just as much capacity to lie and deceive with deliberate intent as adults do. There are always two sides to every story and we all know that children can and do say anything to get out of trouble. Last year I was accused of saying all sorts of heinous, sackable things by a child who took a dislike to me because I refused to allow her extensions on her coursework. She wanted to make me the villain of the story so she wouldn’t have to acknowledge her own failures. Her parents lapped it up and I was hauled into a meeting with the Head. Thankfully because another colleague had been close by and witnessed the conversation of which this child had gone home and fabricated a completely different version, I was exonerated. But without that colleague happening to have been there, that could have been my career over. So. Not all children are innocent little angels I’m afraid. In a school, teachers are bound by professional standards and contractual obligations. We can lose our jobs if we cross a line with a student. A student doesn’t lose anything if they make up shit about a teacher - legally they still have to be educated. So the balance of probability in a he said she said situation between a teacher and student, for me, always lies with the teacher.

I’ve worked in many schools and whilst I’m not saying that there aren’t some awful teachers, they are definitely few and far between in this day and age. Teachers are put on support plans for the most minor issues these days that the chances of several teachers in the one school bullying a child is extremely unlikely!
I have however, seen many children who lie and who back up others to make false allegations against teachers and back up their friends when they are in the wrong. The behaviour and attitudes teachers have to put up with at the moment are absolutely shocking. When I first started teaching the vast majority of parents were supportive when notified about their child’s unacceptable behaviour and now it’s much more likely that they will be critical of the teacher claiming their little angel can do no wrong. There’s no way any teacher is going to have the time and energy to ‘pick on’ a delightful child who is following the rules. I’m certainly not buying the fact that there’s more than one teacher in the one school doing this! The more likely scenario is that your child is exaggerating or making it up. It’s also more likely that your child’s behaviour and attitude is not as good as you’re making out. Teachers see many students the same age and will have a better idea of what is acceptable or not. Unfortunately in my experience too many parents have low standards of what they expect in terms of behaviour and the way their child speaks to others.

Obviously I'm not saying don't teach them compassion. But I'm saying be very clear with them about what bullying and abuse is and that we should save our compassion for those capable of returning it. That it's important to be kind to ourselves too and not be around people who treat us or others cruelly.

My parents were taken in by her too as she was superficially charming. Convinced them that I needed special attention in certain areas etc...

I never told them about the physical assault in childhoood as I thought I'd get into trouble.

I think 'I'm sorry that that happened to you. You know I'm here if you ever need to talk' is always a good place to start. Also being very clear that no one has the right to physically harm them under any circumstances of course.

And most importantly, teaching them how to spot bullies and making it clear with them that - we do not give these people the benefit of the doubt or makes excuses for their bad behaviour. And that we are not to blame for other people's cruelty. And that we should get away from these people, fast and far. Not try to hang around changing ourselves in hope of fixing them. That it's OK to consider people 'bad'. Not go searching for the good in everyone. Because some people...really are just rotten.

Of course, getting away from an abuser is easier said than done if it's a teacher who's class they have to be in.

But the 'there's good in everyone' Christian narrative I had background wise, I think did me a lot of harm. I couldn't trust my instincts of 'she is bad and means me harm'. I think its important to be clear with kids that evil does exist. And whilst many people are good human beings who sometimes make mistakes, some people are out solely to cause harm to others. And its never our responsibility as children to guess what's what. If someone treats us badly- get away from them.

Nowhere in your post have you said how often you've tried to get the seating plan changed?
If other members of staff have asked, and the answer is still no, then yes, you need to escalate.

I'm still not sure it's bullying, however it seems the term is somewhat subjective. To me it's poor professionalism, however without talking to the teacher, I don't know if there are any other reasons why they aren't moving your child. There's not enough information to decide whether it is intentional bullying, being a shit teacher, or having other justification for not moving your child. Whatever of those three it is, the teacher is not very professional in their communication with you.

You said your child was moving schools. Apologies I thought this was imminent.

I would just add, just because pp mentioned 'intentional bullying', that when I was a kid being predated upon by this teacher, it came with tremendous amount of shame and guilt because, you were taught that adults were always right and, if they were mad at you or punishing you, it must be because you are bad. That they must have a reason.

So even as a kid I made excuses for her behaviour. Infact, sometimes I even catch myself doing it now with 'oh she was a young teacher and it was a big class..stress...' etc... but, I can also clearly see the signs of predation. Of how she deliberately alienated me from my peers. Ans even after assaulting me, singled me out for further abuse (as opposed to a normal person who may havd 'snapped'. Who would instead, surely have tried to distance herself from me instead going forwards).

As a child I knew she was mean and hated me but I also felt their must be a reason, like it must be something I'm doing wrong.

Anyway the point being, whilst I think some teachers have things really hard and make...awful mistakes, shall we say... there are predators in the school system who enjoy the vulnerability of children.

I think it natural to try see things from the adults point of view. And recognise that teaching can be an extraordinarily emotionally tough job. But sadistic personalities often gravitate to positions of power over the vulnerable.

I am fully recovered. Though I do recognise that the abuse in childhood from that person predisposed me to abuse in my later life.

I have met many wonderful teachers. I have friends who are teachers infact. But I still wouldn't ever trust strangers with my children. Certainly not if I couldn't home school them if a scenario like ops arose.

Luckily I don't have or want kids so no need to revisit any past trauma. But I feel so sorry for children who even today, are exposed to monsters.

I read your post @Keyryder and feel desperately sorry for you that happened. Living your life with such an attitude of suspicion towards school must be so draining and it is clear your experiences in school caused this.

However, I do think that it isn't helpful to portray all schools and teachers as evil abusers. Reading your list, 1-3 & 7 are signs of abuse we are taught to look out for as staff. 4 would raise safeguarding flags too. 5 is very subjective because what's usual for one child isn't for another. 6 is plain crazy apart from the odd teacher mistake. You must have encountered a very nasty teacher.

I spend a lot of time in other people's classrooms and seeing others teach. As a general rule, my colleagues are all trying their best, want children to do well, enjoy the teaching part and building good relationships with students. If I'd seen the behaviour you described, I would have taken it further.

I know this post won't change your mind, and I hope one day you get the support to recover.

OP I hope your child is coping with their last few days in the school.

People don't like to believe teachers bully children. But alas, they do. Lots of evil teachers out there unfortunately.

I would say, look out for these things

1. Alienation from peers. Because kids notice a child being bullied by a teacher and distance themselves for fear the teacher will bully them too.
2. Child becomes withdrawn, jumpy, depressed and won't talk about it.
3. Unexplained marks or bruises.
4. Child being kept after class alone with teacher. Excuses made like 'they are behind on their math skills'.
5. Child being sent to head teacher or punished more often than usual.
6. Homework marked incorrect when it isn't.
7. Child often worried about having done something wrong and fixating that you think they are bad as a result.

The teacher who assaulted me as a child and later, bullied me through a whole school year, is now a head teacher.

I'd never have children if I couldn't home school them. They are not safe in these facilities.