To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

@Feliciacat

I have always been baffled as to why there isn’t more emphasis on appreciating yourself and your life for what they are! I’m trying everything I can to be a Mum but why isn’t being childless more acceptable?

So why not stop trying to have a child? Why not adopt?
Why not give up and focus on your child-free life?

Because you desperately want a child. You want to be pregnant, carry a child and give birth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that either.

Endometriosis is the leading cause of infertility in women and most of us have required several surgeries due to it.

One thing I do find interesting here, is that doctors aren't allowed to mention health risks of being overweight for fear of being accused of fat shaming but IVF is an issue.

I imagine a lot more money is spent on obesity related health issues than IVF, despite the fact infertility isn't in someone's control versus most weight issues.

I’d never presume to preach about NHS funds and IVF when I’m in the privileged position of having two children of my own, both of whom we were able to conceive naturally. I am thankful for them every day and I’d never try to take that away from somebody else by outlawing IVF funding on the NHS.

But surrogacy? No. This is too parent-centric for me and doesn’t favour the rights of the poor child stuck in the middle of it. An individual’s right to have a baby simply does not trump the rights of the child.

Incidentally, the idea of donating my eggs/embryos blows my mind. How can you have a biological child just out there in the world and never get to know them or anything?! An embryo would surely be a full biological sibling of any existing child you had as a couple.

baffling.

Not sure you realise the impact of infertility on mental health. Not being able to have a child is life altering and has an immeasurable impact on mental health. A life long impact infact.

But what would be the point? You can't stop people from conceiving naturally unless you want to veer into fascist territory, and once they do, providing care isn't optional. Your point is a blind alley.

The fact is that IVF doesn't save lives in the way that maternity and neonatal care does. Personally I think fertility treatment should be available on the NHS, but I think the NHS should be drastically better funded and its remit expanded in any case; I don't think we should be paying for dental or eye care at the point of delivery either, and mental and physical healthcare should be properly integrated (IVF touches both, imo, and is generally a net positive for society). I just don't think that lashing out at fertile women and drawing spurious parallels helps anyone.

To be fair for many women it is a big deal and is heartbreaking.

All I ever wanted was to be a mom. I worked with kids until I had my own.

Infertility and pregnancy losses were heartbreaking.

I adopted which in many ways was a far more exhausting process and I didn't do IVF but it's silly to say it's not a big deal.

Stress levels for women experiencing infertility have been compared to women experiencing terminal illness in studies. Which is NOT to say they are the same thing.

I watched a friend go through IVF in her 30's and then 12 years later died of terminal cancer at 42.

Both were heartbreaking for her. She was so thankful though that she was able to have her beautiful daughter. She was amazing and definitely meant to be a mom. 💖

I’m not literally suggesting pregnant women are denied care. My point was fertile women are never made to feel guilt about the family size they want despite the cost to the NHS. No one ever suggests someone stop at one or two because the money on the next birth would be better spent funding cancer instead. Yet IVF is vilified for the cost.

Sorry I think I quoted the wrong person! I meant the person you were replying to 🙈

It's not fair. That's the point, isn't it.
The ease with which men are able to do some things, thereby allowing them to do anything easy for them, could be extended to anything and prohibit women who need modifications to the task or process in order to do same. Follow? So, should we chuck all feminist initiatives and accomplishments? No women police, firefighters, military? No women in trades, medicine, science? Maybe prohibit women workers totally since childcare usually falls to women so it is more difficult for them to work outside the home. Periods mean more time from work. It's easier for men. 🧐

@BellaSignoraa it is a disgrace

I say this as someone with endometriosis who recently finished a cycle of private ivf (using my eggs and my DH’s sperm), got pregnant but miscarried at six weeks. So I do know what it’s like to dearly want to be a parent and suffer from problems conceiving and carrying.

If I don’t ever become a Mum; I’ve still got myself, DH, my cats and all the friends, family and activities that I love. I have always been baffled as to why there isn’t more emphasis on appreciating yourself and your life for what they are! I’m trying everything I can to be a Mum but why isn’t being childless more acceptable?

Haha no not at all, I think the NHS should follow the guidelines and treat infertility with the same respect it does other illnesses and provide 3 full rounds.
it shouldn’t make people feel second class for needing help

Where I live they removed all access to IVF and gave the county council a pay rise.

I do feel that by saying “IVF shouldn’t be available on the NHS” you are essentially claiming that only wealthy people deserve help with infertility and only children with wealthy parents will have a good life. Easy way to create a more divided society. feels a bit eugenic-y to me.

Yes Scotland actually follows the guidelines. For anyone in need of funding in England moving to Scotland is not an unreasonable consideration!

so you think things that aren’t a death sentence shouldn’t be provided by public healthcare ? Gosh that really would massively reduce the bills of the nhs because many many many other things are not a death sentence and are treated publicly .

So do you disagree with anything that doesn’t risk your life being treated on the NHS? Just to clarify?

@wintersgold that was a comparison of something else not needed but that adds to an enriched life.
who are you to say what a healthy life for a woman is?
IVF is a medical treatment that can cure medical issues. It is no different from any other medical drug/ surgery

It depends on whether it involves donor eggs or not. The use of donor eggs has major risks to the health and life of the donor. In most cases, particularly paid for eggs, the risks are minimised to the donor (e.g. told no evidence of long term effects when the reality is there is no research into long-term effects). This is cruel and heartless.

IVF with your own egg is fine. You are making a decision based on your item body. Plus there is more data on the effects of the drugs on infertile women.

When did I say I agree with viagra being provided by the NHS? If a woman can have a healthy life without IVF, it should not be provided by healthcare

I understand that feelings run high on this subject, but this is alarmingly poor logic. Denying women care for subsequent births would result in dead and damaged mothers and babies, not to mention the catastrophic strain it would place on the NHS when all those mothers and babies who survived it needed ongoing care. Denying IVF on the NHS isn't remotely comparable.

Infertility is not a death sentence so no, I don't think it should be provided by public healthcare.

If her donation was a simple as orgasming into a cup, we could have a fair comparison.

It’s not everywhere. I have a stepdaughter and my DH and I are entitled to 3 rounds on the NHS because I have no biological children. We’re in Scotland.

@itzthTtimeGib an interesting point about evolution. The numbers are so small I can’t see it mattering. If it does cause a future infertility increase maybe that wouldn’t be bad for the overpopulation of the planet?

I also wonder if the treatment of other diseases which would be fatal from a young age is increasing the prevalence in society. For example if orthodontic treatment wasn’t available and people with v bad teeth couldn’t eat well they would be were likely to have children. Does this mean today more people have wonky teeth and lore treatment etc?

edited after reading you other post. Yes iVF can really cure infertility for some people. I have known people who then had subsequent natural pregnancies and healthy births