To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

Various people opposed to IVF on the thread with no articulation as to why? I’ve never really seen a logical argument against (own gamete) IVF.

Embryo destruction- not logical, an embryo cannot feel anything, most embryos in IVF don’t make it anyway through being poor quality and either failing to grow or struggling to implant. Any couple TTC could be making embryos that die that they won’t even know about as they simply didn’t grow properly or implant inside the body. The use of potentially viable embryos in scientific research is necessary.

Nature’s way- as is cancer, heart disease etc etc but we treat those.

Overpopulation - the make or break for this will not be IVF. Actually in the wealthier countries where IVF will be more prevalent population is generally decreasing.

Adoption available- very different from IVF, not a solution for infertility, fertile couples could do this too.

But who's paying for the storage?
The clinic I went to storage for 1 or 2 years was included in the IVF price.
I remember having DC2 in my arms when the letter came in asking for payment for the next year or the alternatives.

I also think there is a max of 10 years they can be frozen.

Absolutely not. My issue around surrogacy (and I am not saying I am 100% against it, as such) is that once the baby is born, they are a human with human rights and they are given away in a way that they are not with planned adoption. The latter of which almost never happens in the U.K. because the babies who are removed from the birthing mother are against the choice of the mother.

Also once filled in a form with a Mum who referred to her tween child’s father in front of him as “some black guy I met in local night club”. How in any way would that child be more impacted by their father being a sperm donor because Mum wanted him so much? I know what I’d rather my story was!

@adviceneeded1990

Exactly and so would I. I egg shared for the first two of my 6 IVF cycles (keep your hair on ladies I paid privately - no NHS funds were used to rectify the mistakes the NHS made when operating on my husband and thus rendering him infertile!) at no point was I coerced or pressured into doing so. I actively chose it for myself. In 2000 I went on a Travel & Tourism residential to Majorca with college. My friend shagged a barman in a shrub, no idea who he was and at 17 was pregnant with a man she didn't know and whom the child hasn't got a chance of ever meeting. So, which is best my eggs helping to make a living couple a Mum & Dad or a 17 year old producing an unwanted child after a shag in a bush?

I wish there was better info about options for embryo adoption- it’s quite sad to think there are women who would love the opportunity to carry and all those embryos just sat there (IIRC they are running out of storage) - obviously there’s need for therapeutic support for all parties involved but I am surprised it’s not more widely discussed . I’m not even sure how I’d go about it and I’m open to it!

The vast majority of the companies buying donor eggs exploit vulnerable women and completely underplay the risks. They are commercial entities who are mainly concerned with profit.

Obviously I don't get to tell you what you can and cannot do but equally you don't get to tell me what I can think or what opinions I can express.

Well that goes to the heart of it doesn't it - what does choice in a capitalist system even mean?

Brings us back to that anarcho-communist utopia.

But these days women are soldiers too. We're not quite at the stage of giving men the womb technology. 😁

I think both gender and class analysis are required.

How much real choice is there when choice/opportunity is limited?

I am eternally grateful that ivf was invented. I had my one and only child after my one and only pregnancy at age 28 after 1 go with ivf. I had great egg quality but two blocked tubes. Used my dh sperm. Dd is 13 now and I've never used contraception and never been pregnant again. Without ivf we wouldn't have had the joy of our dd in our lives.
Our small family is very healthy. Never had hospitalisations, not been to the GP in 10 years. I pay for private medical insurance and have used it for things like physio and removing a mole. Dh and I are higher rate taxpayers. We have more than paid into the nhs to get back that one Ivf try we got.

Due to my age I had IVF 'lite'. Only produced 5 eggs, 3 fertilised, 2 stopped developing and 1 was excellent quality- now my dd. No embryos left to freeze.

I am totally against surrogacy in all situations as the thought of a baby being separated from their mother (under these circumstances) is just shameful.

Good luck to anyone currently going through ivf.

but by your reasoning we should withdraw all mental Heath services from the NHS?

They will always know one or both of their biological parents did not want them.

This is complete rubbish - being a donor is not about giving up a child you don’t want?! And more recent studies show that when donation is ID release (possibility for donor child to contact the donor when they are older), there is never any secrecy around the child’s conception and it doesn’t come as a surprise, and donors donate altruistically (in many countries it is illegal to pay a donor beyond expenses) that the children are very well adjusted..

So many people are posting on this thread based on outdated or just completely fabricated / anecdotal information. If you don’t know about a subject, either do your research to develop an informed opinion or stay out of it. You don’t have to comment.

I think IVF is amazing, but not a one size fits all service. I’m against multiple rounds of funded IVF when there isn’t the money for essential services like cancer treatment. I also don’t think it should be a postcode lottery.

Yeah I would feel differently about that. I’m not at all against adoption, fostering etc in fact I think it’s a wonderful thing. I’m just not comfortable with destroying embryos or aborting unborn babies.

But if the argument is that renting your womb is different because it entails potential physical harm, then obviously men are traditionally more affected on that front given the amount of manual labour, military roles etc where they essentially rent their muscles.

I would argue that the pressures to do any sort of job that the middle classes find horrifying needs a class analysis more than a gender analysis. I don't feel pressured to rent my womb out, as a woman, because my middle class privilege affords me plenty of other options. If you're saying surrogacy is uniquely exploitative of an oppressed class, the anti-surrogacy logic surely extends to abolishing the military etc?

But while I personally find working-class men and women being bought as human cannon fodder to be horrifying, I also know many of those soldiers not only signed up willingly but took pride in doing so and loved their jobs. I think it's best not to assume any job I find distasteful is inherently exploitative or oppressive, and instead to ensure that all jobs are regulated and their workers protected according to their own metrics.

Many women would not have a healthy life without ivf.

Well I kind of get what your saying.

But it's a bit like saying we shouldn't bother about treating asthmatics or worrying about kids with allergies because they'll only reproduce with kids with the same issues or worse.

Would you feel differently if embryo adoption was more readily available/talked about ?

(I don’t actually know how I feel about it so I’m not advocating for or against - I suppose I’d love more children but don’t know if it’s biologically on the cards for me so I’d happily give an embryo or two a home! But equally have always hoped to foster and not sure said home has enough rooms and those are children who are already born - and given my professional background, I’m very well equipped to support)

Oh I agree. Anyone can have an opinion. I only ask that people really and truly think through their opinion's.

I was raised in a super religious home and country. I was hard to separate that sort of thought control from what I really thought about things.

Read and research and form your own thoughts. You might find things are not as your think

Not really, I'm just saying why it's a bit different.

I don’t agree with this but I can understand it and you are entitled to your opinion.

My child is donor conceived - she’s only little but at the moment she thinks it cool and tells people all about it. Might change as she gets older but looking at all the low/no contact posts about parents on here being raised by your biological parent isn’t always something people are radiantly proud of. There are plenty of people born as a result of a ONS or other reasons why the mum is no longer with the biological father.

right now - she knows that mummy went to extraordinary lengths to bring her into the world and she loved beyond measure. She is surrounded by adults who speak positively about her identity and think it’s amazing. She is raised in matriarchal, feminist home because the patriarchy is awful.

I think a lot of the anti-DC sentiment on here often comes from research that is somewhat outdate - there have been significant changes in the way we raise our children- and the world they are raised in . She has other IVF conceived friends, friends with two mummies, friends who are estranged from the biological parent for very good reasons, friends in more traditional families, friends in blended families…. Now I know there will be rude and judgmental people out there - but hopefully we can support and educate those who are willing, and step away from those entrenched in their own limited world view . Thank god it’s not the 50s and we’re chucking women in mother and baby homes !

now I recognise that in donating you risk a family and environment that might not be as supportive as the one she is born into - and that is a tricky one - however, it does seems like families tend to choose a donor who aligns with their own values . The pre-IVF counselling (while somewhat rubbish and judgmental in my experience! ) hopefully helps to encourage positive parenting

That's only in the UK and even here, we have donation sites which bypass the laws.

So you want to opppress women further by stating what we can and can’t do with our wombs? I wouldn’t use a surrogate either for what it’s worth, but I wouldn’t judge someone else who wants to. Same way I wouldn’t have an abortion but if someone else wants to then it’s not my business.

I'm quite pro anarchist-communist utopia 😁

I think it's different because it's only women that are affected, and society still suffers inequality, both here and worldwide. (Aren't women at the point of the year we're working for free right now compared to men?) So the pressures to become a surrogate and that avenue are unique to an oppressed class.

@Rizzla and where you brought up in a religious household.

I ask this as I was. It took me a long time to realise what I had been told my whole life didn't need to be what I believed as an adult.

I took time to educate myself.