Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

It's why there is no debate.

Some people have no choice. A debate just makes them feel shit and is unnecessary. A 3 month old baby will be absolutely fine in a nursery, regardless of why they are in there.

Even if it is because the mother wants a career too if she wants to ensure she is never beholden to the father, the absolute bitch 🙄

I totally agree it is not the first generation. Once childcare credits were introduced, most mums went back to work. That was some time ago.

I'm interested in this.

I had twins.

I put them in a childminders one day a week from when they were 9 months.

It wasn't because I needed to work, it was because my then H worked long hours and I was doing all the childcare for both of them.

I used to sleep while they were at the childminders. I was exhausted. The first year was horrendous.

One baby is probably easier than two, and some mothers will need to go back earlier for financial reasons but I definitely needed some child free time in that first year (for sleeping if nothing else) and I'd be in favour of that continuing to be offered.

@ForRealTurtle I think we are agreeing with each other 😁 I could chose a life of poverty, as could most people I guess, but I don't want that. The alternative is uncomfortable sometimes, such as when I had to drop my baby at nursery and he cried and my heart broke. That was really hard, but a life on benefits would have been worse for all of us.

It's tricky because the choice often feels as stark as that - pay the mortgage= leave your baby in day care, which btw, costs as much as a mortgage! I wish there were better options. I wish nursery staff were paid better, the qualifications more meaningful (I work with learners doing their child care L2, it's not great) the job more satisfying so that people stayed. I wish there were more job shares and part time job available, and that mat leave was longer and included men more meaningfully. I wish there were more onsite nurseries. I wish the nursery years weren't this grim thing you have to get through, both in terms of financial and emotional stress. But here we are!

There are people who really do need to work. I do not care if mothers work or not. But there is a lot of dishonesty. Mothers are sharing their own circumstances on this thread which show that working is a choice. They want a nice house in a nice area, and to have money to do social activities. To do that they need to work. But they could live differently if they chose that.

@weatherthestorm There are plenty of us in our 30s whose mothers went back to work at 3 months. It's hardly a new phenomenon and this isn't the "first generation really, who are increasingly being put into full-time nurseries as babies"

I think it’s a sad situation but unless more money is put towards SMP, or the cost of living significantly reduces, it won’t change.

I’m currently on maternity leave, my daughter is 7 months old and won’t be in nursery until she’s 1 when I go back to work. We went for her nursery visit and to get forms signed etc and there were quite a few really young babies. It’s sad and I can’t imagine it’s what any family would choose to do but for a typical household, where mum only gets SMP, especially if an unplanned pregnancy so less time to save/prepare, there’s often no choice. SMP is about £730 per month ish, it doesn’t come close to comparing to an actual income. Most average people now need the vast majority of both incomes to keep bills paid and food on the table, they can’t afford to live on 1 wage + £730 a month. For us that amount isn’t even half my usual income. Luckily we did plan this pregnancy and so we have savings and my husband earns well otherwise I’d be back to work already. I have lots of friends from baby groups who have gone back already because they couldn’t afford to continue their leave, they aren’t happy about it but being able to feed and house their baby has to come first.

I went back to work by choice at 3 months. A shorter maternity leave was definitely the right choice for my family.

I don’t agree with the government paying mothers (because few fathers would choose it) to stay at home. I would increase paternity leave from 2 weeks though.

@ForRealTurtle And childcare?

Yes the poor can live in benefits because their earned income is already so low. I am saying you are choosing to have a job and better house by choosing to do a much better paid job. You could give it up, live in a cheap rented house, and be on benefits. The fact you do not want to choose that, shows it is not such a great life.

Yes. I'm American although moved to the UK v young. My friends and relatives back home can't believe how 'lucky' we are with 9-12 months ML as fairly standard! They have it very very hard there

This is simply not true. There was a large focus on how children were raised. A focus for example on children's rights and feminists campaigning to make smacking illegal. There were books written on feminist parenting and workshops. A lot of what is seen as modern parenting was being argued for by feminists.

I'd be interested to know the statistics on the amount of babies sent from 12 weeks, I suspect given our maternity leave it will be very, very low to the point it's not really a "societal issue". It'll be more relevant in countries like the US.

Could do what, live on benefits? I can't, I don't think we'd make it. Benefits don't pay your mortgage (I don't think anyway) so we'd have to - what, sell the house and spend the proceeds on private rental and hope the landlord never decided to sell? Who would do that?

If you are very wealthy or very poor you can opt out. The rest of us really have no choice.

I wouldn't have had babies if I knew I'd have to put them in nursery when so tiny.
I think its cruel and selfish.

6 months is bad enough, 12 weeks should be illegal.

I always feel sorry for poor American women. I've seen on groups I'm in that some women go back to work as early as 6 weeks post partum. It's crazy that we live in a world where women have to leave their tiny babies

I'm from a country where ML is only 3 months, so what do you think everyone does?

It is very rare for babies to be in nursery this young due to the current 9 month maternity leave. I've been a nursery nurse for 30 years and have cared for less than 5 babies this young. For what it's worth, they got lots of cuddles and attention from the staff and were very well cared for. But not ideal no.

It's not ok. But it's not the fault of the parents either. If you have to work, you have to work. It's the responsibility of the govt to sort it out and offer adequate support.

Agree @SlugsWon - provision of a decent lifestyle on one income is usually the preserve of the very wealthy, not the middle.

I don’t have skin in this game really as I am lucky enough to work somewhere that offers 6 months full pay for mat leave, shared the leave with my DS’s father (who is lower paid than me) then juggled and bodged it all through lockdowns so the intention to start nursery at 9 months was actually nearer to 18 months before he was attending regularly.

If circumstances were different then I would still have been happy with my choice - he was fine at nursery and I haven’t had a break in earning.

We need childcare options for women who want to work.

As a 1970s feminist I am proud of all we achieved, but one area where I think we took our eyes off the ball was child raising. We barely considered it in our focus on women engaging equally in the workplace, except a passing thought to free 24 hour nurseries, or to a Kibbutz style collective lifestyle, or to truly equal relationships. None of which have materialised!

@SlugsWon But you can do that as well. The truth is you do not want to live on such a low income.

I don’t know. Personally I wouldn’t put my babe in at 12 weeks. I agree with PP who said separation anxiety might be worse at 9 months to a year than those who have been in at the beginning. My son did struggle with going at a year old.

Having said that I was put into nursery early and have never had anxiety or suffered separation despair. I can’t even remember it as an adult. Maybe if the symptoms come up in another way then I am affected and don’t know?

My partners family on the other hand were all stay at home with mum and a ‘village’ family until primary start. It’s lovely really. They are all super close and have such lovely memories of childhood. It’s idyllic on paper. In reality they are all varying degrees of anxious messes as adults. Couldn’t cope with moving out/ going to uni and it took multiple attempts before they managed it. Even now 20s and 30s the majority of them struggle to function without mum and dad.

So it is interesting. DP and I talked about it as it’s such a recognisable difference and he too believes it’s the root cause of their family’s problems. So we decided we were going to do nursery. Much to the families disapproval.

All those saying that it's wealthier mum's who have the option not to work - this isn't the case where I live, at all!

Professional, well earning parents can't afford to take extended gaps for many reasons, so go back to work around the 10-12 month mark, albeit often part time and with quite favourable conditions (some WFH, or flexible hours). Poorer mums are the ones who can afford to stay home, it's a lot easier to give up a minimum wage job and move onto benefits than it is a professional wage.

There is no snark or judgement in this - I have a very large age gap with mine and have been both the sahm on benefits and the professional mum leaving an 11 month at nursery. Long term I know which one works out better and which I'd chose again (not being on benefits!) but it's not true to suggest that wealthy women primarily make up the stay at home cohort