To say that the healthcare system hasn't a clue when it comes to mental health??

There's no accountability. The staff I've had contact with have been appalling - rude, disrespectful, uncaring, complete disregard for following processes etc & there's no way of speaking out about it.

There's a case going on at the moment where a ward manager & chief executive are being prosecuted for corporate manslaughter. This is the first time individuals have been held to account for Mental health failings. I hope it will set a precedent & force these services into tackling widespread failings, neglect & abuse.

Mental health care is really not like the rest of the NHS. It is more like the prison service.

Unfortunately most people with severe mental illness will only receive compassion & fair treatment when they come into contact with police eg in a s136 or welfare concern. At least the actions of police are scrutinized.

I would urge anyone interested to read 'out of her mind' by professor Linda Gask published recently as its a brutal honest look at women's mental health care in the NHS.

You're not wrong. I've seen people who have nearly died from throwing themselves from height during acute psychois, being turned away from the hospital with a crisis line number scrawled on a tissue. As soon as their physical injuries have healed enough they just say 'bye'.
I personally have been turned away by three different MH services. The only thing left is to try through Mind. But I'm scared of being sectioned again so don't trust speaking to anyone. They can section for anorexia as the treatment is forcing you to eat. But most other MH treatment seems like guess work. There's no funding for it either, even though it's growing as a national problem.

I began experiencing mental health challenges around the age of 12, and I can relate to how you’re feeling now. At that time, there was much less awareness about mental health, and it was heavily stigmatised—something you couldn’t openly talk about. It wasn’t until my late 20s that I started taking medication, which helped significantly, but I still felt broken inside.

Over the years, I’ve spent much time analysing myself and trying to understand who I am and why I feel this way. For me, it’s been a combination of factors: genetics, a family history of mental health issues (my mother), and the impact this had on me as a child. My personality also played a role—I’m highly sensitive, struggled with low self-esteem, and lacked confidence, among other things.

Now, in my 50s, I’m in a much better place, but it has taken a lot of hard work and self-discovery. I’ve learned to identify my triggers and develop healthier coping mechanisms. I’ve also made significant adjustments in my life, such as reducing my work hours, stepping away from social media, and cutting out toxic relationships. I’ve lowered my expectations, stopped comparing myself to others, and worked on liking myself for who I am. Despite my flaws, I’ve come to recognise and appreciate my many good qualities.

I am speaking from the perspective of someone who has worked in MH for over 20 years. I also have a sibling with severe and enduring schizophrenia so I'm not immune to the impact of MH on families.

The reality is that the current MH offer DOES NOT work for many. There are of course people who have been helped and supported by the NHS and feel their support has been life changing. But the truth is, many many people do not have that experience. The MH system at present is simply not working for many many people and needs a huge over-haul. We just do not have enough money, staff or resources to give everybody the long term therapies and/or MDT support that would make a fundamental difference to their lives.

We need to start again and some of that overhaul of the MH system may need to begin with education in school from primary age as pp said, as well as a big change in the medicalisation of MH.

Mental illness covers far more depression and anxiety
Severe and enduring mental illness,s such as Bipolar ,schizophrenia ,schizo affective disorders ect are still very taboo and nobody takes about them

The NHS is a disgrace in general but mental health is especially bad.

The women (some kind of “clinician” so not a doctor) I saw asked me nothing just offered anti depressants. I had to inform her I had been on them for 20 year at that point.

She kept saying “but what do you want ? This is the NHS” without even the decency to be embarrassed at not having anything at all that could be helpful except a waiting list.

Don’t even offer a follow up appointment or suggest what to do if I got worse.

Beyond useless.

I think a good way of looking at the less acute and extreme MH issues would be to think of it in a 'what do you want to achieve from the treatment' way. So - it might be, "I want to feel confident enough to go out, get on a bus, do my shopping'. Or 'I want to be able to get a reasonable night's sleep', or "I want to be able to work in an office and not be terrified of how I'm going to get out of the building in a hurry' (all situations friends or relations have been in).

It might be possible to address these issues successfully - I don't know. But what MH services (or any services!) cannot do is to help with the expectation 'I want to be happy'. Many people both now and in the past were not 'happy' (what does is even mean?) and it's not a useful target. This comes back to the major problem with all this - the very open-ended nature of MH issues, where they are seen as a problem to be 'solved' to everyone's satisfaction. From what I've seen, that hardly ever happens and if we expect that outcome, nothing will ever 'work'.

My daughter, for eg, had a really great career in London in a difficult-to-get-into field, but she couldn't continue due to anxiety about travel, the tube, cities in general. She was diagnosed with ASD and is also bi-polar. She now works in a pub and lives with family in the countryside and says she is really happy (and seems happy). She was mainly put on a course of CBT which seems to have benefited her, but she also takes medication. We are aware that, while life is good for her at the moment, she is always going to be fragile and that brings its concerns for the future. But frankly, what else could have been done?

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. It's so frustrating.

My experience with the NHS for MH has actually always been excellent but I had anorexia which, let's face it, gets far more than its fair share of money and resources because it has physical symptoms too, has a high death rate and (if I'm going to be cynical about it!) disproportionately affects young, affluent white people! I also haven't needed any treatment or input since pre Covid so I suspect things are not so good now. But ny treatment was life changing and quite possibly life saving. And I got it more than ince. So I will always be grateful to the NHS.

But that doesn't mean that what's happening to you isn't awful. I totally agree that the NHS was never designed to treat mental health. But it wasn't designed for a lot of the other things modern life needs it for either. We either need to scrap it and start again or sort it out!

Well that is ridiculously shortsighted- socially,educationally and medically. My dc would be causing the NHS and tax payer further ££££££ if they hadn’t been treated properly. You don’t leave physical illnesses to get worse until they cost far more so MH should be no different.

FWIW OP I am with you. I feel the impact of my mental health issue everyday and the help available has been meagre and ineffective. I just get on with it but the problems are systemic and the whole system needs rebuilding top to bottom. I wish you well.

I was just using depression as an example.

I'm v pleased your DC has been well supported and found the intervention helpful. They were lucky to get decent therapies. But it's unrealistic that that huge level of support can be offered to everyone. Close to 1 in 3 people experience diagnosable MH probs. We simply don't have the resources available to change everyone's lives in the way your DCs life appears to have been changed.

Many years ago we had county asylums for people with long-term complex mental health issues ,they existed in the 1800,s the problem was many patients were wrongly admitted to them sometimes for very tenuous reasons and many were kept in hospital for far too long and became institutionalized
By the 90,s many of these hospital,s were closed down

Well said. I agree with a lot of that. Especially the introduction of emotional literacy and resilience in schools.

Who cares about Pythagoras and ox-bowe lakes when we can't leave the house because of anxiety.

MH should be taught in schools, as should resilience and strategies to manage MH, regulate emotions, manage difficult situations, manage difficult thoughts etc..

I disagree. Poor MH is a lot more than depression. I have dc who have had clinical depression, severe anxiety, CPTSD, suicidal idealisation with attempts and a severe ED.

The higher tier treatments( not crappy CBT lead by somebody poorly qualified ) lead by high qualified staff and medications have been life changing.

The solution needed is a societal overhaul on every level, but mainly…..

• Emotional intelligence and resilience development should be in the curriculum from the very first day of school until the last.
• A change from the current societal culture to one of personal responsibility, accountability, community, tolerance and respect.
• ALL healthcare, caring, social care, law enforcement, education, political employees etc and parents need significant training and education on the impact of adverse childhood experiences and how to apply trauma informed practice.
• Social media in its current form should be entirely eradicated. It is the greatest toxic poison of the modern world.
• Funding for meaningful research into general mental health and specific mental health illnesses needs to be increased.
• Mental health care services need to be better staffed, more visible and more accessible.
• Acknowledgement that health inequalities exist and an improvement programme to address this.

I understand your anger, but the thing is, there is no pill, no one therapy, nothing that can 'fix' it for you.

I think the medicalisation of mental health and all the comparisons to broken legs, cancer etc.. are really not helpful. It makes people think - 'oh, if I can find out what's wrong, get my diagnosis, then I can get treatment and be better again'. But this almost never happens. While CBT and similar can help a bit with depressed mood or feelings of anxiety, a lot of the reason for that is the work the client puts in, and clients are very rarely offered a long enough course of CBT anyway. Other therapies can be effective, but all require work from the client etc.. and it's not really ever the case that you 'have depression' then complete therapy, and then are 'fine'. People usually continue to feel a bit rubbish afterwards and sometimes get worse again. Meds hardly ever work except to dampen and numb our feelings for a while.

I do agree with a few other posters in that we need to re-think the MH system and how the media and others portray mental health. If I have a diagnosis of "anxiety" then I will assume I need treatment for that and will want it and will not be satisfied if it doesn't work (which it.often.wont). We do need to.oberhaul.the MH system as currently there is simply not resource to treat the millions of people in need.

I do hope one day we'll get rid of this analogy with physical health problems. It's not helpful. I think.its been perpetuated by psychiatry and used in a well meaning way to try and reduce stigma. But the message has backfired and is fundamentally flawed

YANBU but also the science and methodologies behind mental health services are atrocious. So much of what passes for “therapy” these days is at best irresponsible and at worst actively harmful. It’s deeply troubling.

Honestly please anyone who is saying you can think your way out of it etc etc you clearly have no understanding of mental health whatsoever
This was me in my mid 20s. All the negative emotions and experiences hitting me in one go. On the surface, I seem fine, doing all what was expected of me but deep inside, I felt so alone, lonely, lost and just unable to see even a hint of positivism in my future.

I attempted suicide and then saw a private psychiatrist. He did all he could do, give me antidepressants and daily dose of valium, because in the 80s, that's what they did. I lived in fog unable to process anything. No acute mental pain, but nothing remotely positive either.

It took years to break the cycle alone. It took many many small steps. Events that changed the course of my life, accepting who I was, my strengths and weaknesses. Most importantly, my bad luck but also the fortunate things I could hold on to. Ultimately, no psychiatrists, therapists, family member, partner or friend got me out of it. Only me, in time, finally accepting this inevitability, although all the above helped me a tiny bit. Tiny bits I couldn't see then, only later in retrospective.

You don't want to hear and read any such posts. Only, I assume, posts saying how everything and everyone is shit and that's why you are not getting better. That's totally normal. One day, you will be better, pain free, and will reflect on this time with a very different perspective.

I do wish you all the best. The key think to hold on to is one tiny step at a time, and if you take one or two back, it's not sign that it's backwards only from then on, one more little step and the backward ones will diminish while those forward increase.

That's a bit harsh OP.

I actually agree with quite a bit of what coffecantata is saying.

People are sold the line 'you must have X or y diagnosis and should reach out for help'. But sadly that helps doesnt exist and it's unlikely that it ever will.

I do think that we need to re-think the NHS somehow and we also need to reduce the amount we medicalise everything and get back to supporting each other in communities, and learning to develop a different relationship with our emotions which is less about treating and getting rid of them (which is hard, if not impossible and meds don't really work to do this) and more about seeing them as normal parts of our lives, normal reactions to bad experiences etc.. which we can learn to manage

I've worked in mental health for many years.

You are absolutely right that the help available is far from ideal.

I used to feel awful for clients who have been sold this message to speak out and seek help. When in reality, there is no (adequate) help available.

I personally think after years and years observing the system, that it's all a massive waste of money.

I actually genuinely believe if you scrapped all mental health care provision in this country, the outcomes for people (on average) would be no different from what they currently are (on average, not thinking about individual cases).

Most of the drugs don't work, most therapies currently offered (which are v short term on the whole) make very little difference.

We r ploughing billions into a system that is broken and does very little good.

Mental health system needs a massive re-think, right through from primary or GP accessed services to inpatient units. It's all a catastrophic waste of money that in many cases does more harm than good.

Sadly, this is the issue. @CoffeeCantata is absolutely correct but when you are in it, all you want is someone or something coming up with a miracle cure to take the pain away. Being told that that cure doesn't really exist and that you have to build resilience whilst gaining understanding of what are triggers to build you own coping mechanisms is not what you want to hear.

I do agree with this. Granted, @CoffeeCantata didn't quite put it sensitively but there is truth in this. I work with people with chronic conditions. There is no cure. A lot of the time people who do recover - in a sense that we understand recovery model i.e. being able to live a full life despite having a condition - are those who accept situation as it is and learn to self-manage.
But, in the middle of a crisis, it is natural for people to reach out to a health professional for a fix. The fix often doesn't exist and it then becomes a tricky conversation where one is trying to coach a person through the same self-management we've been exploring in the last 147 appointments. A lot of the time, it helps the person to gain agency and sense of control. Occasionally, we get "you are all just useless" response because we can't immediately resolve the symptoms with a magic pill.
It all stems from over-reliance on the medical model. "Here is a broken part, take this and it will be fixed". Even with psychological therapies, a person needs to work through the techniques and build coping routines. It's not as simple as sitting in a room being "therapied".
And yes, the case is the same for people with incurable cancers and many other physical conditions.

YANBU. Most people need better therapy than a few sessions of CBT. I’ve had to spend thousands on private therapy and not everyone can do that.