White Saviour

Also agree that at the time it was recorded it was massive and was a way Jo Public could do something to respond to the awful thing that was happening ... we didn't have phones we could click a few times and donate. It was more considered and meaningful. The images I saw on tv then will forever be burned into my brain

Yea the song had flaws but to have got all those artists together so quickly and get a well intended single out so quickly is a huge deal. And I say this as no fan of Geldoff.

Agree with some of this. And I can't put my finger on what it is but something about ES is irritating as fu&k in general, I think it is smugness.

This.

It doesn't need to be endlessly rehashed but equally we don't need to trash work done with good intention by examining it through today's lens.

Was it better than doing nothing? If the answer to that is yes then I don't care for the over analysing everything else about it.

I have less to say but I've quoted you because I think your post is important.

You are absolutely correct that foreign aid is a debt trap but to rub salt in the wound we also have the gall to deliver lectures on human rights whilst we fleece the countries we previously colonised. We have no shame at all. It's why China is becoming a bigger influence in Africa, the debt trap is the same but the moral superiority is absent.

On the point made by other posters about charity encouraging dependence rather than self sufficiency, the issue at the time Band Aid was made was drought which lead to famine. Giving the Ethiopians some seeds and wishing them better luck next year wasn't an option.

AIBU to believe that we should stop playing the White Saviour and as advised, let Africa deal with its own problems?

To answer your original question, yes, YABU to say "let Africa deal with its own problems." and you sound incredibly smug with it too.

Live Aid etc was of its time, and I think most people would agree not appropriate. Just like pictures of pretty white women playing with poor African children deservedly get bad press. But lots of AID as well as charity funds etc are providing significant support, particularly int he context of healthcare, which is a huge need - vaccines, contraception, maternity care etc are all huge problems in parts of Africa and many organisations are working on this. Similarly, the devastation caused by wars and natural disasters often require significant support.

As for "let Africa deal with its own problems". Let's not forget that a great many of Africa's problems started with Europeans coming in and taking the land, the people, the culture. Many British people don't like to think about this, but Apartheid (in South Africa), for example, may well have been created as a formalised political system in 1948 with the first Afrikaans government, but it was in place via the British since the 19th century - passbooks, restricted work and living arrangements, land grabs etc ALL happened long before Smuts and his gang took over.

In Africa, HIV and AIDS has been a huge issue. Do you all remember the huge debates about how and when HIV started? 30/40years ago, western countries watched it devastating Africa and liked to think it was an African disease. Except,we know this isn't the case - the problem was that once it got to Africa, because of things like extreme poverty and migrant labour it spread like WILDFIRE across the continent.

Also, do you have any idea how tiny the budget for AID is? It might seem like huge amounts of money, but I believe it's something like 0.5% of GDP.

ugh. I feel a bit dirty reading this thread.

I imagine Ed Sheeran has never faced starvation, never sat in a refugee camp with his starving baby dying in his arms. Yes principles are great but they don't put food in anyone's belly. I'm pretty sure that the people who were dying of starvation but were fed because of Band Aid couldn't give a flying fuck about how anyone else feels. As for the rest of Africa suffering because of how Africa is portrayed well maybe they should share some of their wealth, food and water and the white saviour wouldn't be needed.

It’s als confusing because I saw something say that if this song/money raising thing is to be done, it should be done by African artists. Right ok I get the sentiment but the whole issue is apparently that the song lyrics are patronising because not all of Africa is poor and not all Africans are the same. Yes here’s the suggestion that we should use “African” artists (and the list of suggestions which followed were all from different parts of Africa or uk or America) as though just being in anyway associated with Africa is good enough to place you in a position to do this. Seems very contradictory.

I don’t think the song should be used again - it’s been and done and people have expressed they feel it’s distasteful enough that it’s just stubborn to try to bring it back - but see no issue with a new song raising money for good causes. Plus when so many children are living in poverty here, and if people in africa have an issue with it, do a song to raise money for uk kids no?

also also, people give money because they feel sad - take away the sad images and tell people nah its not that bad, they’re just stereotypes, well then no one’s gonna give are they?

Is the issue the song and its lyrics, or is it the giving?

Exactly.

The line was intended to be provocative.

To get people to look at other people's suffering.

Well you clearly don’t understand how ‘aid’ works. The money is used to further business particularly defence industry interests. The majority of the aid will involve the UK building infrastructure and providing weapons etc. These will be manufactured by UK companies. For example, I say I’m giving Uganda £10 million in ‘aid’. £9m will be paid to UK companies to build roads, airports etc. This will need to be paid back with interest. Another £0.5 will be spent on UK based NGOs etc and charities, and the last £0.5will go to the Ugandan political party in charge.

The people will see fuckall but are somehow more in debt.

International aid favours the UK. This is ow our defence industry makes money. Ending aid will cost UK jobs. Do you think the UK government send ‘aid’ altruisticly? If so when there’s an actual disaster why am I as an ordinary person asked to give money to the Disasters Emergency Commitee? Surely it should come from the aid budget.

Aid is a con aimed at extracting even more money from poor countries and getting them more in to debt.

The best thing that could happen is to wipe their ‘debts’ when in reality it’s them who are most likely owed money, and let them use their money in the way they want to build their countries without interference from the ‘benevolent’ aka loan shark West. Then you won’t have to worry about being seen as ‘white saviour’.

Tbf I've never thought much about it but I heard Geldolf on the radio saying something along the lines of "people who are born in these unfortunate places" or something along those lines this morning and I did eye roll. I don't know why. I honestly don't really know that much about it and I'm sure everyone is acting with good intentions but some of it seems a bit outdated.

And I do feel strange now, overindulging.
Christmas is a bit obscene, considering…

There are children being massacred now.
And we’re here, giving our kids too much!

I’m not a super-woke, protest-person at all.
Just a mum who is thinking about all of this.

I’m saying Geldof could see the same then.
Perhaps Ed could start a new movement?

Yes, the song is dated. The lyrics are dodgy.
And Ed is certainly right, in this day & age…

However, at that time, it did open our eyes.
Bob Geldof achieved worldwide awareness.

Agree, and also the contrast where the west generally (not always) has excess of food and stuff at Christmas comparison to somewhere experiencing famine. I think some people are taking the lyrics a bit too literally.

No one would say it out loud, but we all prefer that it's someone else suffering. not us

I think this line was included deliberately, to make people confront an ugly and uncomfortable truth

Did she offer up how she makes a difference to the world @Lallydallydune ?

I’ve volunteered in the UK and abroad since I was 13 and at 50 I’m now a volunteer director of several charities, run a community centre, manage a charity shop and have a business helping charities be better with strategy and operational gubbins.

I grew up in Africa in Nigeria. It does have a lot of corruption but it still has needs and I’d rather risk supporting on the ground organisations (with money, resources or volunteering) than imagining them closing due to lack of support. In Nigeria this last two years I’ve supported Land of Hope that mainly saves abused, abandoned and neglected children - many accused of witchcraft. They also support elders in the same position. https://landofhope.global/en/

Please continue to support charities in any way you can. Sometimes just helping online with admin or social media/marketing is a great help?

I think it means there but for the grace of God go I. It means we should have compassion.

It is sickening when people virtue signal that giving money to people or developing countries is white saviour as a reason to do nothing and feel smug in their position that by doing nothing they are helping people learn to look after themselves.

A lot of these countries do deserve money, as a right not as something they should feel grateful for.

It isn’t for other nations to “teach people to look after themselves”.
There are very complicated histories with international debt and badly thought through historical loans leaching of poor nations to richer ones. These debts should be written off years ago as irresponsible lending

And reparations for colonial exploitations (which will not happen) would in theory be deserved and outstrip any charity giving.

I thought the problem lyrics were more the ones that go
"And there won't be snow in Africa this Christmas time.. Where nothing ever grows / No rain nor rivers flow" relegating the whole of a massive continent to a single image of a starving child.

But I agree that it did any amazing job at the time. And it shouldn't be redone- something more relevant to now should be instead. Maybe something on cancelling poorer countries debts?

I don't have an issue with the original version and the way it was created to respond to a horrific, urgent situation within the circumstances of the time. It saved lives.

The world has changed a lot in the last 40 years, and especially the last 20. Mobile communications have done a lot to create opportunities in areas that were previously remote.
Re-makes of charity singles aren't going to solve structural development issues; that needs to come at government/ regional/ institutional levels.

Why would we look back at something that happened so many years ago with the sensitivity of today.
We watched the Michael Burke reports and artists got together and made the Band Aid single, held Live Aid and we purchased the record watched the show, whatever.
Surely it is easier to have an identity crisis with a full stomach.

We simultaneously take interest payments from developing countries.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/developing-countries-facing-debt-crunch-2023-10-04/#:~:text=High%20interest%20rates%2C%20growing%20investor%20risk%20aversion%20and,range%20of%20developing%20economies%20mired%20in%20debt%20crises.

I like the sound of direct giving, Moonlight. How do you do it? Are there charities set up for this?

I use Kiva, you actually loan the money (minimum $25) I've lent to a female dairy farmer in Pakistan, a seamstress in Peru and I can't remember the others. I just relend the same money.

www.kiva.org/blog/how-microfinance-supports-livelihoods-in-developing-countries

This wasn't the first though. The first was actually the Concert for Bangladesh in 1971. Lots of musicians getting together to perform, raise funds and tell the world about the situation in Bangladesh. There were issues with getting the funds to the right organisations to assist those in need, but it also raised immediate awareness of the war between East and West Pakistan, as it was then.

It was of it's time and truly came from a good place by well intentioned young, idealistic people. Bob and others were very passionate about doing something to help, you only have to see the famous interview Bob did.

The impact of the reports on the famine were horrifying at the time, and I think it's hard to understand now how shocking they were.

It should be retired now.

It's complicated.
There are many charities that support 3rd world countries that listen to the people there, and do valuable work. It's easy to be cynical and tar all charitable giving with the same brush.
Much of our Foreign Aid budget is spent in the UK, housing asylum seekers.
China is pouring money into Africa, and other countries. Whereas western countries aim, at least, to do some kind of gatekeeping on how the aid is used, China 'goves' indiscriminately, on projects that might not be to a country's best interests.