White Saviour

I had missed the more updated info re the SIV strain found in primates. Thank you for pointing me to it. V interesting and I've done a little reading today.

I will need to go and read up more as I don't understand why it took so long to become an epidemic .

Certainly, in the late 90s, when I was studying this (from a historical and sociological perspective, not as a scientist), there was a lot being written about the fact that it was spreading quickly in populations that are heavily migratory (including, for example, through people in the travel industry, merchant navy etc as wel as migrant labour in Africa, combined with these populations more inclined to wide ranging sexual activity (ie promiscuis, and across borders). Certainly, those types of migrant labour/ migratory populations (maybe less air travel) would still have been an issue in the 50s and 60s. I will have to read a lot more about this.

Is it the people they are claiming to help that are complaining? Or it is better off Africans, maybe Africans not living in Africa who are complaining because they don't like the image it projects.

Fuse is the one who was embarrassed as a child because of the pictures of starving children. Lucky him, he was being fed but hey let those children starve rather than offend his sensibilities. No one is stopping wealthy Africans or African countries from being the saviours, black or white

I couldn't care less about the music, I never bought the record as I donate in other ways but unless someone can prove that no one in need got food I'm all for helping the starving. Lots of talk about the money not going to the right place but the BBC had to apologise for their allegations about that.

Ten years ago when this was again discussed Farm Africa said this, "“Since 2000 Farm Africa has received grants worth over £550,000 from Band Aid that have supported our work with Ethiopian pastoralist communities to develop sustainable livelihoods; our programmes empowering Ethiopian women through goat breeding and other livelihoods, access to savings and credit and legal advice; and our work in South Sudan (then still part of Sudan) to support the recovery and development of rural communities.” She adds: “We remain true to our founding belief that small-scale agriculture is the key to ending hunger and poverty in rural Africa and that, with the right support, Africa can feed itself.”"Sounds positive to me.

So where do you think HIV originated? Or are you disputing the interaction between HIV & TB?

https://www.who.int/westernpacific/health-topics/hiv-aids/hiv-and-tuberculosis

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2935100/

Where does the money go then? Someone posted a link to the charity report, it says they give grants to support groups that are supporting health initiatives and providing food.

I stand by my comment, I was in my late teens when it came out and it head and shoulders stank above everything else that came out at that time, rubbish tune, painful lyrics, it was just a vehicle for collecting money, and it did that very successfully

Even if the volunteers are working for 'free' the money spent getting Europeans to the place to build would have paid for professional builders to be brought in from a local area or even another closer country.

Except that these people are spending the money, not the orgphanage, and they're NOT going to just send the money.

As for who gets rich - god, if things go well, I'd hope that everyone gets rich. When, say, a church or university in another country supports an orphanage or a school in Africa, it absolutely is about helping the children in that community to thrive. It pays for teachers. Sometimes it pays for equipment or facilities. sometimes it might pay for transport because otherwise chidlren can't access those facilities, or food so that they can eat during the day. If those funds are not there, then there are no teachers, there are no classrooms, there is no support to get to school. That money has to come from somewhere - I'm all in favour of some of it coming from other countries.

The point I was making is that in the original comment, a poster was being very dismissive and inaccurate about how some (not all) of these volunteering schemes work, what these volunteers do, and the long term value. Not least that they're not doing professional jobs!

As for you, personally, I'd have thought you going out there and hgelping to teach other teachers to use sign language would have been quite helpful potentially, but obviously it depends on the program, existing skill levels etc. Although yes, of course, if you spent the money with them instead of on your fights and accomodation, I can see how that's a great value too.

My midwife when I had DD was from Nigeria. She spends 3 months every year returning to Nigeria (over the worst of winter here! Sensible woman!) during which time she works in communities training women and midwives because many don't have the skills or knowledge that can prevent infant and maternal deaths.

Wow.

Even if the volunteers are working for 'free' the money spent getting Europeans to the place to build would have paid for professional builders to be brought in from a local area or even another closer country.

I like the way you assume it would be the European who may become rich, if you are wanting to improve things, then education to allow the orphans to thrive and earn would be better than being the pet project of a uni or church.

I have looked in to volunteering, a few years ago the first school for Deaf children opened in Uganda. Ugandan Sign Language is very close to BSL which I'm fluent in, I'm also a teacher.

I decided the best thing I could do was buy a couple of school uniforms that allow children to attend.

Things have moved on but we cannot get away from the fact that many of the systemic issues in African were caused by European colonists. I think longer term there's a difference between relief efforts which will always be periodically needed around the world for disasters/unexpected events and long term support to build self sufficient nations. I don't have a solution but simply abandoning Africa to its fate is unfair because we (collective we, the French, Belgium's, Italians, Portuguese, Germans and Spanish) have all been to blame

Womblewife
The song lyrics are quite unpleasant really - “thank god it’s them instead of you” - that is not nice, I have never thanked god someone is going through terrible times so I am not. What an absurd lyric!

the song raised money, let’s not have it again.

@Womblewife the lyric is "TONIGHT thank god it's them... meaning, tonight they are raising money for "them" and not "you"

Stop using the word woke for a start and generally the left wing are more correct dear.

I don't think Ed Sheeran was born!

Lots of people don't/didn't think it was a crap song. Turn your radio on (now OR in 1984!) and you will hear many songs you think are crap and someone else likes.

Oh I absolutely agree!
It is and always has been, a crap song, written quickly, recorded quickly to get it out to raise money. It is in no way a good song aside from the fundraising aspect.
I would be so happy to never hear it again.
Plus it is sad and frustrating that the money raised does not reach the intended recipient.

Well - given most African countries didn't gain independence until the 50s and 60s, it wasn't clear what the context of the aid given 100 years ago was. You can't count anything given before independence as aid, surely? But I see now you were talking about a tiny minority of countries and generalising to the whole continent, to make them look worse. Rather like the original song in fact!

If anyone wants to donate there is a charity called giving with care. You loan someone the money they need and they pay you back. Last year I loaned someone 60 quid to replant a paddy field after years of none use they paid that money back and now have rice seed to carry on planting for future generations. Its brilliant.

I must said I am more worried about modern day slavery. That is the real injustice of the times we are living in. It is happening right in front of our eyes on this country, everyday.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

Well, I am going back to my history schooling in the 90s but let's see if I remember it correctly.
Egypt - early 1920s
Liberia - sometimes in the mid to late 19th century
French sub-sahara somewhere around 1960
South Africa - early 20th century. Before Egypt. 1910-1915?
Mass decolonisation in the 60s and 70s.

What's the point you are making, may I ask? And how does it pertain to the OP's question.

Much as the lyrics of Do They Know It's Christmas can be criticised for western saviourhood, I think they're quite tame next to We Are The World:

"Well, send them your heart
So they know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stone to bread
And so we all must lend a helping hand"

If he had stopped there, that would have been great. In reality Saint Bob & Saint Bono made careers out of fundraising for africa in particular, even when it became apparent it wasn't getting where needed. Lets be honest, who would actually remember Bob Geldoff other than his charity endeavours.

If you know you're doing something worthwhile, why would you care about one nasty person's opinion?

But realistically most volunteers do it for themselves - that's not a problem as such but something isn't inherently beneficial just because it's voluntary. Unless you've a particular skill set that's not available there and are addressing a particular need, short term volunteering is mostly just tourism. Exceptions would be a surgeon who spends 2 weeks operating on difficult cases. Or an expert going over to deliver a training course for local people. If you're going to spend 2 weeks doing unskilled labour, especially if you get charged for doing so, it's tourism not volunteering. Maybe your nasty friend thought you were in this category.

Why the world keeps sending money there as it doesn’t reach the targets? Also, with all the people coming out saying the Africans are offended which sounds very ungrateful as the intentions were for a good cause. May be the better off Africans feeling offended can help their continent. While we can focus in helping homeless people here in the U.K. that pretty sure includes Africans who moved here.

That's not the point though is it. If they weren't Christians the phrase would be meaningless. It means, do they know it's Christmas or are they suffering too much to remember. The song was written about an extreme famine situation with children dying like flies. Not about normal Ethiopian society.

The point is that times have moved on. African people are talking about the negative impact of using language that dehumanises and negatively stereotypes a whole continent, and the impact this has had, both socially and economically on such continent. The idea of ‘white saviour complex’ is evidenced numerous times on this thread alone. The idea that all, or at least most of Africa, is in dying need of saving from white people sending there kids on a gap year or singing a shitty song, to help them. It’s really not complicated, and Bob Geldof response to any notion of change, just shows him to be arsehole imo. Yes, all artists including ES probably did this with the best intention but actually, the people who you claim to be helping with your oh so wonderful gestures, are telling you it’s not hitting the way you think it is. I much prefer Ed’s response to Geldof!

No one is saying that there is no place for charity, unfortunately that is not the world we live in. But instead of singing a song about there being no joy in Africa and starving children everywhere you turn, just listen and see if there is a better way of doing it.

For those of you so desperate to listen to music that makes you charitable this year, Fuse ODG has a much better one!

Ha! No you're obviously no expert (but there are some good books... maybe read some?)

When do you think African nations gained independence from colonialism? Do you consider colonialism to be a form of aid?