To ask teachers about disruptive behaviour in secondary schools?

With 30 years of teaching experience and having taught many pupils on the autistic spectrum, I can say with authority that AS A GENERAL RULE with a very few exceptions, ASD pupils tend to be more willing to follow rules and be respectful. Your DS is obviously an exception to the rule.

All the stuff matters, that's the point. When you go to school you agree to the rules. If students learn that parents will back them not following the "small" rules, then the students stop following the big ones.

I'm not a teacher but am a parent of twins who have been through a good comprehensive and also sixth form college. They both preferred college massively as they felt they were treated more like individuals...I am sure this is because of class sizes and also the fact they were studying subjects which they enjoyed.

I went to a single sex grammar school in the 90s and my experience was SO different to how secondary school seems to be now. For example, homework....set online and often not even related to anything they have done in class...plus far too much of it. When are kids supposed to have down time? Like I say I went to a grammar school and had nothing like this much homework. I believe this is the result of a ridiculously strict and unrealistic curriculum that can't be fitted in in school time so I have major sympathy for the teachers but it causes huge issues at home and my husband and I are both degree educated but we really struggled.

I also feel that due to special schools being closed (thanks to Blair) we now have a large number of problematic kids in mainstream school and I think this takes up so much energy there is little time left for the kids who actually behave well so in the end they play up, too.

I also believe that single sex lessons would be beneficial. Much of the problem is the sexes trying to impress eachother by fooling around, but also boys and girls learn in different ways and enjoy different things.

I also massively agree that we need way more focus on vocational subjects. We make non-academic kids feel stupid ..like my son who is now doing a high profile engineering apprenticeship which he had to go through an intensive selection process for....he is far from stupid.

I also think we should adopt the pass/fail the year system and kids should have to repeat years. They need to be given responsibility for their own success so that their behaviour has a direct consequence on them.

Those are my thoughts anyway, from my experience.

If this unhinged show of hostility over a single sentence reflects your typical attitude towards students and parents, it’s an absolute wonder that they don’t respect you. Honestly, it’s inexplicable.

@KillerTomato7 you might not actually have as many 'issues that matters' if parents support the school in the first place, and stop complaining about petty things like uniform. Your child hears you, they see you complaining and unhappy with the school, so they don't respect the school or teachers either, therefore if your child misbehaves you've got a good excuse for it haven't you? Oh well the school is shit anyway, no wonder my child misbehaves because of all the stupid rules.
Please.

It would appear the schools are undermining themselves by going out of their way to antagonize students and parents over things that have nothing to do with their educational mission. It’s especially important to do this on the very first day of classes, and to harp on the most minute deviations, in order to sow resentment quickly.

Then, having begun your relationship with that student/family with a show of petty meanness, you can then act surprised when the parents refuse to “support the school” on issues that actually matter.

A teacher's job is to teach.
Disruptive children should be removed, and that's that.

The details/causes of disruption are not the teacher's concern. They are simply following the system. What happens to the child long term according to the needs is not the teacher's concern.
Here lies the problem, because SLT don't know what to do either, so they throw the responsibility back on the teacher and the child is back in the lesson disrupting as normal.

The system is a complete mess.

Parents want schools to be super strict when their child is being affected but when their child is the one causing trouble, they want schools to be laissez faire.

Hey presto, schools can’t teach the kids because the parents won’t let them discipline them.

I taught abroad and would never teach her - so many parents are entitled and dreadful.

Honestly , you sound like a nightmare parent. Sort your child out. He knows you don't give a shit if he misbehaves at school. You've caused that. Not the teachers.

My question is - where has the discipline gone? In my day teachers commanded respect - they'd shout, slam the desk, make you stand at the back for 5 mins..

Are you kidding? Can you imagine the complaints?

I'd say the reasons are for mainly petty things, forgetting a pencil, not having a shirt tucked in, laughing, talking, not paying attention, not enough work

Equipment - wouldn't carry a point where I am but would be noted.
But we are then equipping your son - why aren't you? Where are his spares?
Shirt - would be easily rectified. Do it all the time.
Laughing - if at a fart, I'd be relatively zen but they can take it too far.
The last three aren't petty
Not paying attention usually means they're doing some of the above behaviours in my last post, talking impacts others and not enough work - that will be down to the lack of focus/talking and it will affect others' ability to learn.
They're there to learn. They're there to work.
If three strikes = reflect/isolation/BSU then they need to shut up in class, get in, get on.

If you deem those behaviours to be petty, then you're part of the problem.
And I have a son on the spectrum.

And as for this, I'd be beyond furious if my ASD/ADHD child did this. What are the consequences you've set in place for this? If he can behave at home, he can certainly behave at school. I'd be blazing.

It's supposed to be the other way round if you've brought them up to respect teachers.

Pass marks in the higher maths for grade 4 have hovered around 26 percent. Again, this is psychologically damaging.

Oh behave! Have you even seen a GCSE maths paper??! You'd have to be pretty dim not to get 26%.
You actually need 26 ish percent to pass the higher paper, and about 50% to pass the lower paper

To put this in context, you could easily (and I mean easily) get 90% on the lower paper in Year 6. It's the same maths. So if you're only getting 50% you've basically paid zero attention since primary school. How is that anything other than the own young person's fault?! There are literally YouTube channels devoted to telling you how to pass.

The opposite of gentle parenting isn't to shout or slam things. I am not, by any means, a gentle parent. My kids learned to behave by watching my behaviour, hearing the word 'no' a lot and me having strict, consistent boundaries.

Dh had a shiuty, authoritarian parent. He didn't behave in school at times, but he certainly wasn't scared of shouting ir aggressive teachers, because he already had that at home.

Many of the kids who disrupt are waiting for their teachers to explode, because that's what they're comfortable with. Calm and rational blows their minds.

ASD is no excuse. As a general rule, children on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be respectful and well-behaved.

And here lies the problem - "as a general rule" should not apply to anyone with ASD - it's a spectrum! My DC is lovely at home. It's at school he becomes 'disruptive'.

Behaviours affecting your children's learning as they either distract others, disrupt the flow, are dangerous behaviours or cause havoc...

No equipment, swinging on chairs, turning around, shouting out, doubling down (continuing to talk out of turn), ignoring teacher entirely, refusal to write, making stupid sounds (siuuu, beeping, bogies, porn moaning) throwing things (spitballs, rubbers, paper, planes, pens, sharpeners), goading each other, disablist/homophobic/racist language, answering back when reprimanded.

As a teacher, you're supposed to run the room and think of many of the above as "low-level" disruption.
But all the above are interruptions.
Some might be deemed easy fixes (being a walking WHSmith I am buying these pens out my own money and I'm on a support staff grade) others are meant to be verbal warning and done, or choosing to glare non-verbally/gently reprimand/purposely ignore the more benign for the dysregulated (I think this is the worst approach as it dilutes the sanctions system in place).
But look at the above list and multiply it by six students per mixed ability class, five lessons a day, five days a week and you'll see why your child complains about their lessons being interrupted all the time. It's frustrating for everybody.

@TheSilentSister

Most schools have a behaviour policy. This will state something along the lines that if the child does X you need to respond with Y.

Teachers are expected to stick to the behaviour policy and it would be a disciplinary matter if they did not.

So in most schools you are not allowed to shout at students or slam the door or desks or make them stand at the back.

You have to stick to the behaviour policy.

I have heard other parents complain that teachers are not strict enough. One Jamaican parent said that it was a pity teachers were no longer allowed to hit students as if we gave his boy a good hiding he'd soon behave himself.

Just like when people who work in customer service have a script to follow and cannot escalate to a manager unless x y and z has happened, teachers have exactly the same sort of rules.

If you want a school where teachers are allowed to shout at your child and properly tell him off you may need to go abroad. They don't exist in the U.K.

(I might add that not doing his work is not a "petty" problem...)

@DoreenonTill8 - yes unfortunately I can. But they accuse parents of 'gentle parenting' yet they do the same. It's a cop out but I honestly don't know what the answer is. Smaller class sizes would help.

We are not allowed to shout, slam a desk or ridicule pupils. Fear is not a good motivator to learn! Your DS is obviously choosing to behave this way, and you are choosing to blame his teachers. ASD is no excuse. As a general rule, children on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be respectful and well-behaved.

My question is - where has the discipline gone? In my day teachers commanded respect - they'd shout, slam the desk, make you stand at the back for 5 mins
Can you imagine the furore if a teacher did that?!!
Shout-TRAUMA!!
Slamming the desk?!- TRAUMA!!
Stand at the back?! Singled the child out, who now has PTSD!

Exactly this, some parents need to start parenting.

Also, children are expected to learn too much too quickly, the curriculum needs streamlining massively.

I have a DS who has ASD and in mainstream school. He does well academically so school have never been interested in his diagnosis.
He is beautifully mannered at home and when I'm out and about with him - so much so that people comment. He is loving and kind.
He gets to school and that's when the negative starts. He is often in detention or Hub due to disruptive behaviour. They get a bad mark 3 times and get sent to the Hub. I'd say the reasons are for mainly petty things, forgetting a pencil, not having a shirt tucked in, laughing, talking, not paying attention, not enough work.
More often than not, he's not the only child in that class getting detentions/Hub.

My question is - where has the discipline gone? In my day teachers commanded respect - they'd shout, slam the desk, make you stand at the back for 5 mins. Being given detention/Hub is lazy discipline - it's no discipline at all really. All their doing is making a child late home, make them miss a day of education (Hub).

I'm certainly not saying my DC is an Angel but I command respect at home. All I can do is listen to the teachers on the phone telling me of his latest 'crime' and agree it's not acceptable. I berate my DS when he gets home. Sometimes but not always I set my own 'punishments', which he accepts with good grace. But forgive me for not agreeing that him laughing because his mate farted in class is a crime. Apparently he laughed the longest and loudest - despite many others laughing. Sorry teacher, I had to tell you that was petty.

So, in my experience, it's not the home life/parents that are always the problem - it's the schools inadequate discipline - which no doubt is not the teachers fault, but the system.

As a parent I know a few other parents who can't see anything wrong in what their child does. One has two kids who are in the same years as my two kids (yr 10 and yr8) she is constantly moaning about how the school "give out behaviour points like sweets" and that her son's have loads for absolutely ridiculous things, her youngest is constantly walking out of classrooms, talking back to teachers, picking on other kids and she's been told he will be temporarily moved to another school if his behaviour doesn't improve. But despite this she thinks her son is being picked on by the teachers. She seems to forget my daughter is in all the same lessons and has had no behaviour points and is constantly complaining to me about how disruptive this boy is and how he stops everyone else from learning. It's this sort of parental attitude that makes teaching impossible nowadays.

Years and years and years ago - I left secondary teaching 10 years ago and this was many years before that - my classroom was used as a room for eating packed lunches. It was left in such a state that I tried to get in there five minutes before the end of lunch to sweep the floor and empty my little waste paper bin into a big bin and put a bin liner in. If I didn't, the kids used to refuse to work in it and told me I was a scruffy for having such a shit room - you can imagine the extra stress etc!

Anyway one day one of the worst miscreants came in whilst I was sweeping, I said to him - cheerily - won't be a mo, we don't want to sit in this mess do we? He asked if he could help and was really happy to sweep everything up while I emptied the bin and wiped some tables. He wanted to know if there were other rooms he could go and sweep! He often came early to Tuesday's lessons after that to do some sweeping. I can only think he really wanted to do something physical and practical. It showed me a different side to him (although he still had his moments after that). There are some kids who need to be up and doing.

Otherwise I totally agree with what everyone has said about parenting, weak management, lack of respect, lack of MH services, poverty. As I say, I left a decade ago, it was bad enough then and from what I hear (not just on here) it has only got worse since.

My DC’s teachers are shocked when we are supportive of them, which is incredibly sad

We once had to go into the city on the 3.30 bus. The next day I phoned the school at about 4pm and the Head answered, when I said I'd been on the 3.30 bus he immediately said Oh God, what have they done now??? When I said that I was calling to tell him how well behaved they'd been, chatty and noisy but nothing worse he was astounded, no-one ever had a good thing to say about his pupils! It's a sad state of affairs that he should be so surprised, only expecting negative things, when I'm sure that the reality is they are no worse behaved on the bus than pupils have ever been. 40 years ago our neighbour who drove buses said he would rather miss a shift than do the school bus.