'Females.'

It certainly can be used in a derogatory way, and in a normal way. Context/ intention are key.

In such cases, I think it's best to resist the logic that because a word can be (or even often is) used dismissively that the word itself should be retired.

Otherwise we end up endlessly cycling through terms, as the old ones become unusable. It doesn't remove the objectionable usages/people, but distracts from more productive issues. And jt often ends up creating shibboleths where people are approved or disapproved of based on what linguist circles they move in. That generally disadvantages those with lower social capital, ie, it's elitist.

Sometimes it's unavoidable, but in general we should try to slow the linguistic treadmill not speed it up.

It reminds me of Mr Collins and 'the usual practice of elegant females'. And he was a caricature of a socially clueless gobshite almost 250 years ago.

I've noticed that a lot of men who "wear uniforms", like the Forces, Police, Prison Service and so on use the term "female". I've berated the two I know in those professions for using the term Female when they mean Woman.

Has anyone else noticed this? It must be part of their training or something.

Instantly assume that anyone does this is bloody odd. It’s so reductive that it reflects on the speaker doing it. Man or woman.

I find the use by the police of "a male" or "a female" suspect deliberately dehumanising. They could just as well say a man or a woman, especially as they are usually only referring to their general impression.

I try not to overthink stuff. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Unfortunately, while you know what you mean, there is no obvious law or rule to stop others using 'female' to include trans-women (insert preferred term if desired) if they want to. So I don't see that it helps.

This woman denigrating it is doing so because it's dehumanising, reductive and also grammatically dubious in this context, since we're not voicing a nature documentary. HTH.

I get that it's weird that there are lots of friendly neutral words for a man - bloke, chap, fella etc. - but no real equivalents for women (a bit like the eternal willy debate); but woman is surely the best default for an adult (who is very much no longer a girl).

It is neutral, even though some people may believe otherwise.

Lady is maybe a more 'respectful' term when talking to a small child; but I think it's mainly only more appropriate where you'd refer to a man as a gentleman in the exact same context.

Yes in that context I agree, It wouldn’t bother me as much if people who refer to women/ girls as females also referred to men/ boys as males but they tend not to.

Yes to this. Don't get me started on the idiocy of the terms chestfeeding and pregnant people. Urghh. Totally unnecessary to change the lingo. Healthcare professionals will be aware if a service user is non binary anyway. No need for tokenistic gestures via changing language. If non-binary can use their services then those services are inclusive and no need for wanky gestures like this.

@SleepToad, to many women, ladies definitely does feel off. I cringe when both male and female colleagues use it, but for different reasons. But I also understand that you wouldn't be deliberately trying to offend.

And about women sounding 'blunt'. Oh no. When I hear a man referring to women as women (and not in the that woman or woman delivery driver way) , I breathe a sigh of relief. I think better of him, and imagine he's not afraid of women.

Woman is not blunt, but rich and full. It is, weirdly, the closest I come to feeling anything remotely like patriotism (and I'm generally unsentimental and not that way inclined at all) ‐I feel a kind of kinship with women, both in my everyday relationships and as a universal class.

I prefer it as I know it means a biological female, as women has been taken and is being used for females and others. I think people denigrating it are just trying to get women to be as the accepted term for their own agenda.

Yes, it is a serious question which is why I asked it (obviously…)

Why shouldn't we have a word that seperates us from males?

We do: women.

Like I said in a PP, surely anything related to our biology is already female-implied? I think MN heightens the trans debate so much that people forget that almost everyone in the real world (including trans people) know what is meant when “women’s issues” (so to speak) are discussed. I personally have never come across any “trans activists” who get upset over transwomen not being included in conversations about women’s periods or anything similar. Why do I need to start saying “female periods”? I’m a woman. A “female person” if you really must, but woman is just fine.

I don't care what other people use words for inaccurately - me calling a red car blue doesn't make it blue.

I use 'women' when I mean women, and 'trans women' if I mean trans women. It's completely straightforward because one is female, the other is male.

OMG, I hadn't noticed!!
No forgiveness required!

Speaking as a man in his 50s who lives a life of avoiding most social media, tv and looking at the news only in context of politics, economy and international events. I struggle with how to describe girls/women/ladies. I heard a radio 4 programme, the reunion ,a few years ago and the greenham common protesters objected to the term ladies. And girls seems demeaning. I have used females only once, in the same context as Friday night dinner as being a older guy asking the awkward question to my younger friend if they have a girlfriend in an attempt to be humorous. Women seems blunt.

So basically I am lost. I use ladies as a term of respect and hope it doesn't offend. I use women to describe the female of the human species and would never use females outside of specifically humorous intent.

Is this a serious question? Anything relating to biology, like smear tests, pregnancy,, medical trials and studies, periods etc. Sports, women's history, acknowledging current events like the talibans treatment of women, crime stats, sex based violence, same sex attraction and rights...I mean the list just goes on and on. Why shouldn't we have a word that seperates us from males?

I do use female people when the conversation is about trans issues. Otherwise I just use "women" (which is a synonym for female people and that's how I will use it whether other people are happy about that or not).

Then use 'female people', if you must. Otherwise you're still responsible for that dehumanisation. I personally will continue to use 'women', as I think it still means the same as it ever did to most people.

Why shouldn't we be able to have a term which excludes trans women?

I mean, if they weren't using the word "women" to mean something other than biological sex then we wouldn't have this problem.

But I don't actually need a word in my vocabulary for "anyone, female or male, who calls themselves a woman". That is a non existent group with nothing in common. I do need to discuss female people, and that is something which does not concern trans women, who are male.

Of course they are - 'female' as in female adult humans. Not 'females', which could refer to anything from a budgie to the end of a cable.

They are also female.

If men/males want to weaponise the words female, that's their issue; I'm not going to let them rule my vocabulary.

The word 'woman' now appears to include males who claim to 'feel' like women and demand access to female only spaces.

I'll use female as much as I want, and won't be prevented from doing so by misogynists or entitled males.

But surely it’s already implied in the conversation in all of those circumstances?