It's a shame that Hollywood results in women ruining their looks whilst the men carry on regardless (Wicked)

But neither of those things are question. We know they are talented. We know they are not naturally meant to look skeletal.

you can have an eating disorder and be supremely talented.

Why not? Of course ideally none of us would be influenced by patriarchal pressure to remain youthful and thin. But falling victim to it doesn't mean you can't speak on it.

I wouldn’t think to reply to a post concerned about her weight with “but she’s a great singer”.

@gannett but the thread isn’t about their talents is it? I think they are both very talented but that’s a pretty universal thought. I’m not sure what relevance it has either?

I do too, but it stops the natural wrinkles showing so much, and avoids sagging at the jawline and on the body, which is presumably their primary concern. Awful for them.

It's not so much questioning their talents as just... not mentioning them. Six pages and not a single mention of either Cynthia or Ariana's voice or acting ability.

I don’t think anyone is questioning their talents more the fact that despite being so talented the way the look is more important. I don’t know how you question that or the wider conversation about pressure on women to be thin, not age etc without commenting about how people look?

Can't help but feel this thread is part of the problem. It was grim to read because whether it comes from a place of high-minded concern about a toxic industry or not, it amounts to six pages of actresses' faces and bodies being picked apart and criticised relentlessly.

You can't criticise a system in which actresses are only judged for their looks when this thread is so overwhelmingly focused on their looks as well. Barely a comment about Ariana Grande or Cynthia Erivo's acting, singing or artistic qualities. Almost as if their looks are still the most important thing to posters even on this thread, rather than their talents.

(I have no opinion on Wicked as I haven't seen it, but I've definitely enjoyed Ariana Grande's pop career - she's got a spectacular voice.)

It is ageing. Ariana looks 20 years older than her actual age - 31 - in the pic I posted upthread.

It's certainly not a recent thing.

Olive Oyl was stick thin, while Popeye consumed as many tins of spinach as he wanted.

Draw your own conclusions!

I was really struck by the leanness of Jonathan Bailey too which made me think more about the dance routines. They must have to be very fit.

Which is weird because I think it’s actually quite ageing?

I think that’s a very over-simplified take.

It’s perfectly possible to wish society didn’t view/judge women while also succumbing because you want to avoid being viewed as past it or plain old.

I also think there’s a very big difference in trying to lose surplus weight for health reasons compared to a goal of becoming so scrawny that you look unwell.

For my part, I wouldn’t touch Botox/fillers, nor weight loss injections. I don’t think any of them are a great idea, but I understand why some women would feel tempted.

If society judged women by men’s standards, far more women might be able to see that there’s beauty in age too.

There is quite a big difference between wanting help to lose weight to achieve a healthy BMI and becoming emaciated. Poor Ariana has just ‘adjusted her appearance’, she’s not well.

I thought they were both equally thin. I looked at AG's legs in one scene and thought how toned they were . Filming Wicked must have been a gruelling marathon. Very sad if she is suffering from Anorexia. It must have been very hard to do such an energetic role if she is.

And let's be honest, many who post on MN are wanting weight-loss injections, diet advice and every other cheat to lose weight, so one would hope all those saying how disgusting the system is, are not themselves trying to adjust their appearance

Lots of talk about NK- yes she’s still getting a lot of work but it’s the SAME work. Privileged, spoilt but ultimately ruthless woman in some sort of peril. It’s been the same for years.

Its still work though, for many women all work dries up.

Plenty of 'fat' actresses as well as the -'thin' ones you describe exist naturally and are seen on tv/films. They also contain people who are traditionally 'beautiful'
But you are being disingenuous; over the history of theatre and film, plenty of male actors have been forced to thin down, muscle up, have facial sugery.
So yabu for being sexist.
Also Ariela Grande is tiny to start with, she's, like many others, naturally teeny.

Ari has lost a lot of weight. They both look really skinny in these pics. Hollywood for you.

Lots of talk about NK- yes she’s still getting a lot of work but it’s the SAME work. Privileged, spoilt but ultimately ruthless woman in some sort of peril. It’s been the same for years. There’s no dimension to her roles anymore. The extent of the work she’s had done to her face has even changed her voice.

Men do have a lot of surgery but for some reason it’s only women who come under scrutiny for getting it done.

Kate Winslet is 49 and one of few highly successful actresses who is neither skinny or visibly tampered with. She looks great and must be strong to resist the pressure.

I once served Sarah Michelle Gellar in a restaurant and she was so thin I could visibly see a very fine covering of hair on her face and body- lanugo. She did not eat a thing. I was only reminded of this recently when I saw pictures of Ariana. She is in the grip of an eating disorder and I just don’t see how anyone could say otherwise.

“In a more general point, NK is pushing 60 and yet we're supposed to swallow the idea that at 60 it's perfectly normal to have a shiny smooth wrinkle free face. At about 10 years younger I'm incensed at the notion that any sign of female ageing is unacceptable”.

@FlugelHugel Nicole Kidman is 57 which is the same age as me and a good friend of mine who is a well known actress. She has continued to work but has always said how the roles are limited past 40 even outside planet Hollywood. She recently told me she was speaking to a well known casting director and asked her, ‘who would you cast to play me?’. She immediately reeled off the names of five actresses all of whom were 35-38 years old.

My friend has been cast as the mother or grandmother since 40 often with the actress playing her daughter being only ten years younger and the actor playing her husband a good twenty years older than she is. At 57 the roles are often to play c.70 year olds or slightly cliched versions of older women, but decent roles for women over a certain age are very thin on the ground altogether. This has not been the experience of her male contemporaries in the U.K.