Awaiting _____ diagnosis

It is not down to you to say a child shouldn’t be recorded as having SEN or receive SEP. That is based on needs, not diagnosis. It is for the school to decide that in line with the legal definitions of SEN and SEP, the statutory guidance in SENCOP and in conjunction with parents and any other professional/agency involved. Pupils aren’t recorded as having SEN purely because a parent says they have SEN.

Shocking. Not least for the complete lack of respect for the qualifications of the SENDCO, as well as for parents and children.

OP, you need to read the SEND code of practice. Support is not contingent on diagnosis but whether a child has significantly greater learning difficulties or a disability. Your SENDCO can advise you on this. Ignoring the SENDCO or the SEND code of practice would be unreasonable.

Frankly, who are you to decide which children are 'those kids' though? DD2 was a child who everyone thought was ok. Every time I raised difficulties, I was accused of being neurotic, a helicopter parent, etc. The HT of DD2's 3rd school, who was the only one who realised she was autistic, was still flabbergasted that she needed a specialist setting in year 10. Because DD2 didn't make a fuss, and she disappeared into the crowd. So much so that a girl in year 9, who had been in class with her for 2 years already, turned to her and said 'are you new?'

The kids who need the most help aren't always the most obvious.

Exactly this. I’ve got a child who has been screened and presents with a clearly dyslexic profile. All of his teachers believe he is dyslexic, and did before screening. But he is awaiting diagnosis- we haven’t had a formal diagnosis because the LA will not provide one for love nor money, and waiting times for private dx are also long.

so my child would be one of those with a “little dot” and a note. But he does need adjustments if he is to
succeed. He’s a bright child with a learning difficulty. He deserves to access his education, despite the system moving at snails pace.

Thankfully he has supportive TAs and teachers.

"It actually works against what education are trying to achieve as we are trying to move away from the labelling."

I just don't understand this @Helloahs . I don't understand why a term that groups a set of needs should be removed. We don't do that in other settings. For example, medicine. We don't say 'oooh let's not call them migraines. Let's outline the challenges that all just seem to happen at the same time...nausea, headache, fatigue, brain fog, concentration difficulties....' No, we call them migraines. Now, some people who have migraines vomit, some don't. Some have a need to sleep, others don't. Some get visual disturbance, some don't. So it's not perfect, and we still might need to clarify what 'migraine' means for us, but it's helpful to know that it's migraine that we're talking about.

DD2 is autistic. It's why she can seem confident in some situations and is unable to talk in others. It's why staff get confused that she can tell them how she feels sometimes, and is texting me for help at others, and I have to phone school on her behalf. Having 'autism' as a label helps the school to understand.

17 in a class having a dot next to them because they have SEN does not equal all 17 being entitled to extra time, though. Not all DC with SEN are eligible for extra time.

And as others have explained, there are factors that can mean some classes and schools have higher than average rates.

OP its staff like you are your reference to ‘supposed needs’ that contributed to my Son expressing suicidal ideation due to complete failure of school to recognize his ADHD presentation and continued to ‘manage’ him like a neurotypical person.
Technically you may be correct that ‘awaiting assessment for X’ may be correct but in my opinion its hardly relevant and what really pisses you off is ‘all these supposed needs’. Horrible.

30% getting extra time is pretty ridiculous.
Extra time shouldnt make any difference to most children - provided the test timing length is done correctly...
So is it wrong? Perhaos i mean i almost never ran out of time on any exam i sat 30years ago.
My own dd has slow processing that schools havent identified because she can read well but maths she literally doesnt finish so her results (y7/8) would actually be up to 30% difference.

Some of the kids i know of arent struggling academically or socially or in anyway but have gotten a diagnosis. And frankly it isnt making any difference which is hardly surprising.

Being able to sit where they want to at least in some subjects would help so much!
We never had seating plans except in equivalent of tutor group.

It would help with working with others. Social skills to make new friends.

And also switching classes up in primary is harming asd kids (imo) they only seem to lose friends until they end up isolated. As they dont talk to new people. And they less often see people outside of school

@BertieBotts you make a good point about setting in secondary schools. There will be higher percentages. E.g. in DD2's & DD3's school, 100% have EHCPs, and 100% have 1:1 support, and 100% will have some sort of exam access arrangement. It's just the nature of the school. Most kids have bounced around other schools who have not been able to meet need until they land there. We've been lucky that for our 2 children who are there, it's been Mainstream>X school, and Mainstream>failed Independent SEN School>EOTAS>X school. That's a relatively short route.

At school, DD2 can choose what level of support she has, where she sits, what the lighting is like, whether there is music, where she learns, and her timetable is set for her specifically. In mainstream, all the kids are grouped by age, and sometimes ability. That's it. It's no wonder that some of them just don't cope with the classroom set up. DD2 has fairly 'minimal' needs at her new school, because all the barriers to learning have been removed. If she was back in mainstream, she'd be out of school within weeks.

Hi OP,

I completely agree with you. I am a psychologist and I work in a team who assess young people, generally those who are in specialist school provisions and it really can be so damaging. I am absolutely furious at some of the things I’ve heard being said to families in schools before they have even been assessed, sometimes whilst I’ve been sat in meetings. When challenged the people saying this stuff (eg this child is definitely ADHD) are very quick to back down and say ‘I’m not an expert though’ , but it’s clear that this isn’t how things are being said when I am not there.

In my service we have particular schools that we know often tell other staff and families that a child ‘is’ ASD or ADHD, without any proper training to make that call or any expertise to say that to families. It has been incredibly damaging to a number of families I’ve worked with. Of course, sometimes they are right, but actually I think it would surprise people how often people can get it wrong. I hate that children are being labelled with something that isn’t actually a fit for them. For instance, we often see great confusion in schools between ADHD and learning needs, particularly when in specialist school settings, where a child may be functioning at a much younger developmental age than their chronological age.

Schools are supposed to be needs led anyway, there is absolutely no reason why the assumed label needs to be written on their school care plan. It actually works against what education are trying to achieve as we are trying to move away from the labelling. Whilst there are specific strategies that fit with different diagnosis, actually we usually are drawing on a whole lot of ideas when making recommendations. For example, a lot of young people in specialist settings have communication needs, regardless of what assessment they are waiting for. This requires communication to be adapted to meet the needs of that child, and it really doesn't matter what the overall diagnosis is with regards to this. Yes basic training in different diagnosis are helpful, but we absolutely do not want a cookie cutter approach to working with children.

17 kids needing an individual room to take an exam is a straw man argument, though. OP never actually said all 17 of those children are requesting a private room for exam. She said they all have a dot on a class map, and several of them have "awaiting diagnosis". Then she later said "What if they all want a separate room!" but she doesn't even know if they all want a separate room.

As people have later pointed out, over 50% is highly likely if the classes are organised by expected attainment, and this is a lower-attainment set. Since OP later explained it's a Y10 class this seems likely.

It's misleading - whether deliberately or not - because most of these threads centre on lower primary school perhaps because SEND children in that age group may well have disruptive behaviours. And at that age classes aren't usually streamed so 17/35 or 17/30 would be an extremely high number.

The definition of SEN as set out in section 20 of the Children and Families Act 2014 is “2) A child of compulsory school age or a young person has a learning difficulty or disability if he or she—
(a) has a significantly greater difficulty in learning than the majority of others of the same age, or
(b) has a disability which prevents or hinders him or her from making use of facilities of a kind generally provided for others of the same age in mainstream schools or mainstream post-16 institutions.”

Poverty alone would not fall under definition. Poverty alone is neither a learning difficulty nor a disability. If the child also had SEMH difficulties as well as living in poverty then they can meet the definition of having SEN.

Sorry, you're right, ESL is specifically excluded from the definition. But poverty (if it causes the child difficulty) comes under the social part in "Social, Emotional and Mental Health Needs" does it not?

But many are pretty much diagnosed before if other professionals are involved and when you get through screening a diagnosis is very likely particularly of other family members have a diagnosis.

There has been a surge in SEN identification and formal provision. 15 years ago, when DD1 was 4 and was given her first Statement of SEN, 2.4% of children held Statements of Special Educational Need. Now 4.8% of pupils have EHC Plans.

The reasons will be mixed:
-the curriculum is more demanding, so pupils will struggle more
-covid lockdowns mean that children missed out on learning basic skills
-better awareness of how girls with ASD present Vs the classic boy presentation.
-generally more rigid school environments meaning that children with SEN cope less well and need more support.

DD3 is a classic example of a child who was put under so much pressure that the carefully constructed mask cracked and couldn't be glued back together. She now needs thousands of pounds of provision just to try and get her back into education.

re the diagnosed having more need than others is unfortunately bollocks at the moment as unfortunately
-some parents have gone private

• The nhs seems to have clearly misdiagnosed some kids
• Some schools purposely do not raise issues possibly as then creates a need go support the child.
• Some schools are rubbish at identifying autism and adhd especially in girls

who do you think has the most Need?
All are 11-13

child 1
sporty in member of team sports
Lots of clubs and football
Centre of friendgroup, invited to things including parties
Goes off with friends to the park and meet ups from 9yo
No issues with behaviour in primary
Some at secondary
No stims
No bullying
No depression/anxiety/time off school
Some sensory issues re food

Child 2
Restricted food only eats packed lunches wont eat out
One friend at secondary
Doesnt go out to shop alone or with friends.

Wont go to somewhere they dont want to even if friends are going
Spends most time on online games -
No sports not member of team.
Anxious about things like sports day
Lots of time off and anxiety vomiting
Issues with behaviour from reception
Wont attend anything like scouting or swimming lessons.
Cant go to theme parks as cant queue

Child 3
Restricted food only eats packed lunches eat 1-2 foods when out
Sensory issues with teeth and hair and sound.
One friend at secondary
Not made any new friends at secondary
Bullied by rest of classs/yeargroup
Only recently at 12 go out to shop with friends
Couldnt cross the road until 11.5yo
Generally Wont go to somewhere they dont want to even if friends are going
Spends most time on online games -
No sports not member of team
Cant do teamwork in any subject as cant compromise
Probably wont participate in things like sports day
Some of time off and anxiety vomiting/illness
Issues with behaviour from reception.
Cant do small talk to anyone or tell the teacher there is an issue.
Issues with out of school clubs from school age.
Goes to theme parks but queuing is always a disaster as will start arguments likewise when stuck in a car.
Never sleeps says they sleep 2-4 hours
Cant do homework independently as wouldnt do any and needs pressuring to do it at all.
Cant start any artwork or open ended homework.
Wouldnt be able to take stuff needed for school like pe kit

Who do you think has asd or is diagnosed

Apologies @PerditaLaChien, I read your post as 2 in 3, which is why I mentioned 60 odd %. Sorry about that.

OP I agree with your wording 'Awaiting x assessment' as opposed to 'Awaiting x diagnosis'. Beyond the school issue you're specifically referring to, I've seen it in benefit groups (DLA/PIP, etc), autism/adhd (other ND) groups, adult groups with SEN children.

It gives adults (for themselves) and parents (for their kids) a false sense of entitlement to x diagnosis and most become absolutely devastated/angry/determined to appeal the decision/ determined to go elsewhere to get a diagnosis if they don't get one. If they were of the mindset that they were actually waiting for the assessment, not diagnosis, perhaps it wouldn't be that way.