To think parents shouldn’t bring toddlers to fancy restaurants?

I don't understand the 'you have to take them young so they learn how to behave' argument - if I'd tried to teach DD algebra when she was a toddler it wouldn't have ended well. But at 10 she picked up the basics very quickly. Similarly, most toddlers have poor impulse control, and little understanding of how their behaviour affects others. However most 10 year olds (and hopefully a few years younger than that) could behave acceptably in a restaurant even if it was a new experience, assuming expectations had been discussed beforehand.

I agree op (& I have a child). When I go out at night with my friends, I’m paying a lot of money & I don’t want to hear sweet little Jonny have a strop because he can’t get what he wants on YouTube.

Equally, when I go out for tea with my friends & our DC, we go to wethers or pizza express because I don’t want those people in a fancy restaurant being subjected to our kids!

Has anyone been reading this thread with Nothing Compares 2 U running through their head?

If they're quiet enough you won't notice them. Some kids can sit and eat with their families and talk etc and behave appropriately - mine did. Some kids take a bit longer.

Depends on the child!

My eldest would not have disturbed any diners by 3 years old. Mind, she wouldn't have eaten much either - her tastes at that age were extremely bland. We went to a few nice places at lunchtimes with DHs grandmother and she ate bread and plain chicken and quietly amused herself. Her brothers are now 4 and we have risked pizza express twice. They squirm and drop cutlery and make noise.

Not everyone will judge it correctly, and a wall behaved child could have a bad day. I don't see a lot of young children at restaurants though, particularly in the evening.

I expected him to say something like, ‘Sorry it wasn’t as nice as you’d have liked today. Please have a coffee in the lounge on us to acknowledge things weren’t as good as usual’ - we’re regular customers, the staff know us and you’d have thought they’d want us to keep going back.

Obviously the child being a pain wasn’t the restaurant’s fault, but a modicum of acknowledgment that listening to screaming throughout a tasting menu isn’t ideal would have been nice.

I remember bringing my 3yo DD to a fancy restaurant for my mother's 70th, DH was working and my usual babysitter was my niece who was also at the dinner. I didnt feel comfortable doing it (and she was a fairly placid child too) but it was my mother's 'big birthday' so felt I didnt have much choice, and if push came to shove I would just leave. Thankfully she behaved but we left before dessert as by that point she started to get scratchy. I couldnt think of anything worse trying to calm a small child outside the restaurant / in the car.

If a restaurant allows children then anyone should feel free do bring their children. If you have an issue with kids at fancy restaurants you should check their policy beforehand and make a decision accordingly. My favourite upscale "special occasion" restaurant in London allows kids over 3 for lunch, but only over 8 for dinner!

Depends on the children. Mine sat in high chairs and coloured, did puzzles etc. dd1 went to her first Michelin star restaurant at 9.5 months by accident (a long time ago before home internet) - we were away on holiday and walked past a restaurant which I stopped to read the menu, they had a midweek special, the maitre d' come out to encourage us in and I said sorry another time, due to dd - they said come on it! Dd loved it, was beautifully behaved and loved restaurants basically.

Some children are taught to sit at the table daily, it makes a difference, you can't expect kids who normally kid in front of the tv to magically behave in restaurants

Personally, I really enjoy a toddler or little kid in a restaurant or cafe as long as they are well behaved in line with what you would expect for their age, not posing a danger to the staff and their parents aren't ignoring them whilst they are running amock. I will very happily engage with a small person doing their small person thing.

It was just some of the previous posters irritated me with their views about how they prepared their kids to upgrade to the '£100+ a head places'. If they are teaching good manners, those manners should equally apply in cheap or expensive venues, not withstanding latitude on young energy as appropriate to that venue.

Taking a toddler to a fancy restaurant is no different to taking a toddler to a non-fancy restaurant. You need to be in a private room if you’re that bothered by children.

But I don't think it should be "part and parcel.* It feels to me a lot like the people who get irritated with babies on airplanes, as if not being able to travel because you might disturb some people is "part and parcel" of being a parent.

I don't foresee trying to get a 3 yo to be quiet and still in a restaurant full of noise and movement going very well.

Out of genuine curiosity, mainly cause I've worked as a server, what exactly did you want the staff member to do that you complained to after the ordeal was over?

I've taken my children to a nice restaurant occasionally when they were that small, early evening so probably left by 8ish. But they were well behaved, stayed in their seats, no whingeing or being noisy (they love their food and were busy eating!) so they weren't disturbing anyone. If children are noisy or running around, that's inconsiderate to other diners.

Does this mean if a restaurant owner has decided it best suits their business model to allow kids, they should nonetheless bar them because some people think they're entitled to it?

Mine were all in bed early ish (8-9pm), we took them to lovely restaurants during the day when they were little. If you don’t want children in “fancy” restaurants (whatever “fancy” means) then eat later, problem solved. We often visited Michelin starred restaurants when our children were small, I’ve never felt unwelcome but we never used screens and if they became noisy one of us removed them and took them outside to calm down. A good run in a park before going and being clear what was acceptable behaviour worked for us. By the time the youngest was 5 one look from me if they were misbehaving did the trick. We went to child friendly places from they were a few weeks old and if they cried we took them out. They learned from a young age to sit and behave appropriately and not to inconvenience other people. They were never allowed to run around, get up from the table or talk loudly, we stuck to the same rules at home as well. We never allowed them to get up and down from the table at home, or run around eating food, they sat at the table to eat, that was non negotiable for every meal. We’re we strict? Probably. There was no way my children were going to inconvenience or annoy other diners or waiting staff.

It's not really up to you what other people do, is it? If they're not breaking the law then it's none of your business. If you don't like your surroundings, move yourself. Simple.

I think it's more that the owners shouldn't allow small children in their restaurants.
Some hotels are child free.

I’m not sure it’s ever really “ok” for them to throw food. But people choosing to dine in family restaurants that are normally a bit more boisterous are probably less likely to have their intended evening spoilt than people who have chosen a very different vibe.

I was once in a two Michelin star restaurant when a couple arrived with their children who were approximately 4 and maybe 10-12 months.

They ordered 3 x the £220 tasting menu, and the kids very happily shared. Seeing a baby in a high chair sucking on lobster tail while his 4 year old sister excitedly chatted about her favourite blue cheeses was so lovely. They were so well behaved and clearly used to the finer things in life.

Since the advent of loud devices, I don’t give a flying f about toddlers. I hate with a passion devices that emit noises I can hear, even if they’re relatively quiet. I’d have a screaming baby over a device any day.

That is for the people who run those venues to decide.

I don’t mind…

live kids

Hmmm @RockyFowlboa I think giving up those dinners for a few years is just part and parcel of being a parent tbh.

My parents took me to a really nice place for my birthday one year when I had a 10 month old. It was fine - she didn't cause a fuss - but it turned out there wasn't a changing table. These aren't family dining venues.

How do they learn to behave? You teach them at appropriate venues where children are welcome and then take when they're teens and can be guaranteed to behave in a calm and quiet manner

We did this by accident a couple of weeks ago. We’d been to a children’s theatre show and I’d promised them an ice cream but when we came out it was pouring with rain so ended up in the very fancy tea room next to the theatre. I don’t think we were very welcome!