To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

Nothing in the Bible (well, the nice bit) prohibits women priests. "Christians" did that all by themselves.

A brief study of pre-Augustine Christianity in the British Isles is a fascinating waste of a few hours.

This.

Terms are used to shut people up. Islamophobia or racism used to shut down things like the Rochdale abuse scandals... worries about appearing racist meant girls were ignored.

Shit treatment of girls and women should be called out regardless of 'culture' or religion.

Islam does not cause these issues. They are caused by (surprise, surprise) men.

The Qur'an does not forbid women to work. It does not force them into the niqab either. The prophet Mohammed was very clear that men should not beat their wives and that women should never be prevented from visiting mosques. A Muslim from a more tolerant country might tell you that 'Yes, our religion forbids homosexual activity but the Qur'an also tells us to concentrate on our own actions and keep our noses out of other people's business'.

It is governments who impose such rules. Governments that are made up of men.

No, I am saying the likelihood of extremist Islamists taking over the U.K. Government is infinitesimally small. There will never be be enough of them. We have laws preventing it. Finally, none of the extremists want to come here- they’d rather go to Afghanistan than the U.K. The Muslim refugees fleeing Afghanistan are doing so because they want to live in a liberal society.

One persons extremist is another persons devout practitioner ...

I meant globally but fair point.

90% of the 3% are liberal? Really? Where did you get your figures? I recall something like half of Muslims have pretty unliberal attitudes wrt gay men. I could be wrong and would be happy to be corrected.

Except they don’t lack education. The ONS shows they are just as qualified as the average. So what on different cultures. We used to encourage cousins to marry as well. Heck the late Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip were cousins! So what on city versus rural- do you have something against rural people? There are many here too.,

So you are saying it's ok import extremists because there is only a small minority. What sort of proportion is acceptable for you?

I know many post doctorate Muslims, I certainly didn't say Muslims aren't educated, how dumb I would be. I said many immigrant families come from Muslim countries that lack education. They are also on average more rural than the UK. These are environmental and social influences on the values of immigrant families from these places eg a certain Muslim immigrant population encourages the tradition of cousin marriage leading to above average incidents of congenital illnesses in children

However, the problem today is with an increasing population of Muslims from rural, conservative countries. They are becoming a significant political force in the city and the change is creating a sense of....let's say unrest.

Why is it a problem? We live in a democracy, yes? So that means minorities have a voice. And at 3% of the U.K. population, they are hardly a “significant political force” especially when 90% of the 3% are going to be liberal minded Muslims that believe in a secular society.

“They bring with them a religion that as it is practised is anti women and anti state (in the sense Sharia law is above UK law and represents a parallel justice system).”

It’s not the entire religion though. You are conflating a tiny minority of extremists with all Muslims. It’s no different from conflating the Church of Latter Day Saints with all Christians.

They have labour laws though. There isn’t a lack of them.
Americans also pay tax to help others- Medicare, social security, property taxes fund schools, etc.

@Huffalumps
”Many Muslims countries exporting their citizens have less education and are more rural than the UK on average thus their people tend to have more regressive social values..”

The Muslims here are not less educated…..

From the ONS
The "Level 4 or above" category also had the largest variation across religious groups, ranging from 21 percentage points higher than the overall population for the "Hindu" group (54.8%) to 2.2 percentage points lower for people who identified as "Christian" (31.6%).

Among the overall population, females were more likely to have "Level 4 or above" qualifications (34.6%, compared with 33.0% of males). This was true for most religious groups. However, this pattern was reversed among people who identified as "Hindu" (with 56.5% males and 53.2% females) and "Jewish" (50.5% males, 48.1% females), the group with the next highest percentage of "Level 4 or above" qualifications.

However, the problem today is with an increasing population of Muslims from rural, conservative countries. They are becoming a significant political force in the city and the change is creating a sense of....let's say unrest.

But is that a reflection of the fact that a lot of "indigenous" (to use a word which will probably spark a fucktonne of misunderstanding) population take very little if any interest in the political process ?

When I was at University, a common whinge was how "leftie" the student union was. Except only about 40-50% of students who could vote ultimately did.

Even this year - in what should have been an election of fury and outrage - 1 in 3 people couldn't give a toss about how the UK is run. But I bet they will whine a lot louder than the 2 in 3 that got off their arse and at least tried to do something about it.

Lack of labour laws including maternity leave, is cultural. Americans aren't prepared to pay more tax to help others or put people before profit.

Muslim immigrants from many Muslim countries are likely to have non-working wives and bring less money into the economy than other immigrant groups. They bring with them a religion that as it is practised is anti women and anti state (in the sense Sharia law is above UK law and represents a parallel justice system). Many Muslims countries exporting their citizens have less education and are more rural than the UK on average thus their people tend to have more regressive social values (for example on homosexuality). Muslim families tend to have many children (more than the replacement rate). I'm not sure why. Is this because of a lack of education on family planning or cultural attitudes to contraception or rather a 'full quiver' philosophy?

None of this would per se be a problem other than for the population size. The provincial city I was brought up in for example is highly diverse in terms of religious sects but they are all small and not very visible. The city is generally a very tolerant place. However, the problem today is with an increasing population of Muslims from rural, conservative countries. They are becoming a significant political force in the city and the change is creating a sense of....let's say unrest.

I don’t know quite what to say. I have lived in the US, U.K. and a majority Muslim country and you don’t have a leg to stand on saying that the U.K. is more culturally similar to a Muslim majority country than it is to its own former colony the US.

You can own a gun in the U.K. - we just have tighter gun control than some US States

Lack of paid maternity leave isn’t a cultural thing, it’s an impact of the Christian religious right on the country. Which is more likely to happen here than Sharia law after all Kemi Badenoch, leader of the Tories, gave a whole speech on the evils of paid maternity leave.

There really is a lot to be said for the idea that the Pilgrim Fathers left England not because they were persecuted, but because they were upset they couldn't persecute others.

E2A: I hesitate to suggest 17th century England was a paradise of tolerance, but it did seem to attract an awful lot of people who were persecuted in Europe.

Heavily disagree. If the US wasn’t white and didn’t speak English we wouldn’t think they were culturally similar to the UK at all.

44 states have the right to bear arms
only 11 states have paid maternity leave
social policy around welfare and workers rights across the majority of the US are at odds to what we would call “British values” but the UK, to name just a few.

How many convert back ?
How many lose interest after a few weeks ?
How many just say it because it's what someone wants to hear ?

Will the UK go the way of India eventually? With the partitioning of land to accommodate the populations different faiths? 🤷

Tell that to the Christians in America (and here) who adhere (much like shit to a shoe) to the Leviticus version of the Bible.

See that flood ? Jesus would tell you that it's God test for us to work together to demonstrate our understanding of his love for us and his desire we build a better world.

See that flood ? It's God telling us we need to check exactly where men are putting their willies.

Choices, choices.

What is your definition of “so many” because it must be way off mine?
It is estimated that around 5,000 people a year convert to Islam in the UK. In a country of almost 70 million that number is objectively absolutely tiny.

We don't know how much influence the Church has on politics. We know that Charles, head of the Church, gets to approve or disprove policies that may effect him.