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To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

492 replies

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 19:40

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

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Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:51

soupfiend · 22/11/2024 21:48

Islam and Christianity are evangelical, its gods work to try to convert people. Im not sure Judaism has that element

It really doesn't. From my understanding, it's traditional for would be converts to be turned away 3 times before they can even consider begin to learn more.

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Slowwly · 22/11/2024 21:51

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:49

That's exactly what my original question is about, so I'll rephrase:

You don't think any Muslims want to impose Sharia law?

Yes I do think some extremist Muslims want to impose sharia law. And I bloody well hope they don’t. I can’t see it happening in reality; hope not anyway.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:49

Slowwly · 22/11/2024 21:46

I wish people like you wouldn’t say ‘Muslims’ like we are all the same. Many of us are liberal. Fully integrated. Part of diverse communities. Born here. Living in the UK, some married to non-Muslims, wearing whatever we want, eating what we want but still identifying as Muslims. Some of us would be as scared of sharia law as you are. The biggest threat the Taliban etc pose is to other Muslims. Not the West.

Please don’t stereotype us all like this.

That's exactly what my original question is about, so I'll rephrase:

You don't think any Muslims want to impose Sharia law?

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soupfiend · 22/11/2024 21:49

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:41

The lack of logic is the assumption that immigrants will all be Muslims.
Christianity is the most populous religion in the world. It is more likely that the majority of U.K. will go all Catholic again than Muslim or Hindu.

I think statistically the majority of newcomers to the UK are not christian so Im not sure why or how the UK would convert to Catholicism

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:49

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:44

Research suggests that Muslims are the fastest growing religion, so logic suggests that more immigrants will be Muslim.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050 | Pew Research Center

Ok, but the study you linked projected the by 2050 “In Europe, Muslims will make up 10% of the overall population.”

Now, most of these will be secular Muslims and have no interest in imposing Sharia law. So how is such a minority going to force over 90% of the population to follow Sharia law?

Womblingmerrily · 22/11/2024 21:48

UK Census data on religion although it is important to note the question was voluntary - 94% answered

There were increases in the number of people who described themselves as “Muslim” (3.9 million, 6.5% in 2021, up from 2.7 million, 4.9% in 2011) and “Hindu” (1.0 million, 1.7% in 2021, up from 818,000, 1.5% in 2011).

Religious composition, 2011 and 2021, England and Wales

soupfiend · 22/11/2024 21:48

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:41

What no-one seems to realize is that Judaism is extremely insular; I'm not aware of any Jewish sect trying to convert anyone or impose Judaic law on others.

Christians, I'll give you, have a pretty dicey history on this.

Islam and Christianity are evangelical, its gods work to try to convert people. Im not sure Judaism has that element

Slowwly · 22/11/2024 21:46

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:36

You don't think Muslims want to impose Sharia law?

I wish people like you wouldn’t say ‘Muslims’ like we are all the same. Many of us are liberal. Fully integrated. Part of diverse communities. Born here. Living in the UK, some married to non-Muslims, wearing whatever we want, eating what we want but still identifying as Muslims. Some of us would be as scared of sharia law as you are. The biggest threat the Taliban etc pose is to other Muslims. Not the West.

Please don’t stereotype us all like this.

soupfiend · 22/11/2024 21:45

Dariamar · 22/11/2024 20:08

I don't know why the Muslim religion attracts so many extremists...because on its own it's peaceful religion...not feminist but not violent. But with all the calls to Jihad, Sharia law...it is now something people fear. If even 40% of people In Gaza support Hamas, that is a lot of people following an extremist ideology and it will take a lot to get to peace from that start point for example.

Its a young religion, like medieval christianity, look at them they were fanatics. I see it at the same stage as that. Will it be able to evolve itself?

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:45

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:45

Pre monotheistic religions are more likely to center women as connected to the universe's creative energy.

Incorrect.

You want to say more? Back up your rebuttal?

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LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:45

Pre monotheistic religions are more likely to center women as connected to the universe's creative energy.

Incorrect.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:44

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:41

The lack of logic is the assumption that immigrants will all be Muslims.
Christianity is the most populous religion in the world. It is more likely that the majority of U.K. will go all Catholic again than Muslim or Hindu.

Research suggests that Muslims are the fastest growing religion, so logic suggests that more immigrants will be Muslim.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050 | Pew Research Center

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

As of 2010, nearly a third of the world's population identified as Christian. But if demographic trends persist, Islam will close the gap by the middle of the 21st century.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

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socialdilemmawhattodo · 22/11/2024 21:44

Tabitabtab · 22/11/2024 20:48

Sharia Law is just God's law as to how humans and society should behave

Sadly it really isn't. Sharia Law is a code, under the veneer of religion, that allows a few men to dominate and drive custom. It is so harmful to women.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:42

socialdilemmawhattodo · 22/11/2024 21:39

But I don't believe I am seeing Muslim men stand up against this at all, and that does concern me. I do wonder, in all seriousness, just how misogynist the whole (and other organised religions) faith is?

Most religion is paternalistic, ruled by men. Pre monotheistic religions are more likely to center women as connected to the universe's creative energy.

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LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:41

T4phage · 22/11/2024 21:09

Hardly. It's logical to assume that a country with a rapidly falling birthrate and an influx of people coming from other countries will eventually be overtaken.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory even if some conspiracy theorists have adopted some parts of it and twisted it into their own belief system.

The lack of logic is the assumption that immigrants will all be Muslims.
Christianity is the most populous religion in the world. It is more likely that the majority of U.K. will go all Catholic again than Muslim or Hindu.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:41

Completelyjo · 22/11/2024 20:40

I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic

Really? You’ve discussed being horrified at the regime in Iran and Saudi and people label it as Islamophobic? Somehow I doubt that.

There are some extremist Muslims in the UK who hide behind Islam to be homophobic, misogynistic and patriarchal limiting the rights of women, this is also seen in hardline Christmas groups and Hasidic Jews.

I think fearing sharia law will be placed on all UK citizens is crazy and unfounded though.

What no-one seems to realize is that Judaism is extremely insular; I'm not aware of any Jewish sect trying to convert anyone or impose Judaic law on others.

Christians, I'll give you, have a pretty dicey history on this.

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socialdilemmawhattodo · 22/11/2024 21:39

Noseybookworm · 22/11/2024 19:51

It's not the religion you fear but the people imposing an extreme version of that religion. This happens with all religions, including Christianity. Of course no sane person supports the insane control of women perpetrated in Iran and Afghanistan - moderate Muslims included.

But I don't believe I am seeing Muslim men stand up against this at all, and that does concern me. I do wonder, in all seriousness, just how misogynist the whole (and other organised religions) faith is?

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:38

JaneJeffer · 22/11/2024 20:49

this is also seen in hardline Christmas groups
Santanists?

LOL

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Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:36

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 22/11/2024 20:05

Oh here we go again, another thread about Islam, how Muslims want to impose Sharia law blah blah yawn.

You don't think Muslims want to impose Sharia law?

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turbonerd · 22/11/2024 21:27

Dariamar · 22/11/2024 20:08

I don't know why the Muslim religion attracts so many extremists...because on its own it's peaceful religion...not feminist but not violent. But with all the calls to Jihad, Sharia law...it is now something people fear. If even 40% of people In Gaza support Hamas, that is a lot of people following an extremist ideology and it will take a lot to get to peace from that start point for example.

It is not a peaceful religion.
Like many other religions it is a warrior religion.

It was created to unite arabian tribes in a fight over land and trade. It’s done pretty well.

Edited: the goal of Islam is to have Sharia Law. That is not to say that all muslims want that. But the Quran abiding devotees do want that.
Just like some (many) Christians would like their religion to be reflected in the laws in their countries, etc.

I wouldn’t want either. Because I am a woman, and I like the rights I have equally to men, and because it took a bloody long time to get them in the first place!

Annabella92 · 22/11/2024 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Don't be so silly and naive.

Naunet · 22/11/2024 21:10

Tabitabtab · 22/11/2024 20:57

It genuinely could be by divine decree. I've been on my own spiritual journey for a few years and there are times I genuinely do believe the Islam may be the truth. I toy between Christianity and Islam.

What are basing this on? Have you tried out all 4000 odd religions? All the different gods? You presumably don't believe in all of them? Atheists just believe in one less than you do.

T4phage · 22/11/2024 21:09

kazzieB · 22/11/2024 21:05

Hmmm. I believe this is what's known as the Great Replacement Theory. You could maybe email your post to the Spectator's letters page. I bet they'd print it.

Hardly. It's logical to assume that a country with a rapidly falling birthrate and an influx of people coming from other countries will eventually be overtaken.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory even if some conspiracy theorists have adopted some parts of it and twisted it into their own belief system.

kazzieB · 22/11/2024 21:05

T4phage · 22/11/2024 20:45

I think climate change will increase the numbers of muslim migrants coming here and at some point the balance will tip towards a change of governance in the country in order to reflect the needs and wants of its citizens.

Hmmm. I believe this is what's known as the Great Replacement Theory. You could maybe email your post to the Spectator's letters page. I bet they'd print it.

Vanessashanessajenkins2 · 22/11/2024 21:04

I'm muslim. I married a fellow indian muslim when I was very young in a quasi arranged marriage. I met him and got to know him. Thought I liked him.

He was okay when we lived together, however he started a drug addiction which led to me funding everything, him losing his job, getting addicted to all sorts and stealing money from me. He went out to buy drugs once and left the main door outside unlocked and we got robbed. He started to beat me when I refused to have sex with him.

I had no idea what to do. My mum wasn't supportive and wanted me to change him.

I ended up leaving them all and moving to a different city. Got a new job. I was 22 and had never lived by myself before without my family.

I went to the sharia council in Dewsbury and spoke to an imam about my situation. He met my ex and persuaded him to give me a divorce. I got a divorce and moved on, remarried ( an english legal wedding) and had kids to a good man.

I don't know much about sharia law although the Islamic finance makes sense to me (I work in the finance industry). It was horrid that my ex had to give me a divorce but that's just how it is and I had go work with the tools that were available to me. I'm glad the imam listened to me and didn't ask me to go back to him.

I know girls that are now refusing to go abroad and threatening families with calling the police if they are forced to marry. I really hope, here at least things are changing.

I do pray for my cousins in Kabul who had to leave university and now can't even have a mobile phone. I always try to be grateful and remind myself how lucky I am.

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