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To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

492 replies

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 19:40

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

OP posts:
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Twoddleknock · 22/11/2024 23:48

I think unless you live in an area, such as some in London whereby 70%+ of the population is a Muslim and it’s almost unliveable as a white, non Muslim then it’s hard to understand this. Its all well and good the leftie luvvies sitting in a townhouse in Islington or similar saying we should all just love each other, whilst they don’t have to face any of the day to day issues of being a working class person forced out of their own area / schools / community. It’s sad, it really is.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 23:46

hazelnutvanillalatte · 22/11/2024 22:30

I come from the Middle East. I don’t want an Islamic theocracy here.

Same. My family are from the ME. People are very naive here, and it's always the ones who have very little insight into the reality and think it's all nice and fine. The left and Islam have a long history - the left helps the fundamentalists gain power and are then subdued or killed.

I've never understood why the left leans towards Islam. I sort of understood why they used to lean Christian; as an atheist lefty I have little problem with Jesus' teachings about equality and helping others.

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Oodiks · 22/11/2024 23:43

suburburban · 22/11/2024 22:33

Have they not got anything better to do

Very hard to understand this mentality

I think for very religious people it is the 'better' that they want to do.

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Oodiks · 22/11/2024 23:41

username8348 · 22/11/2024 23:20

I didn't say you were an expert. I assumed you would have rudimentary knowledge, but evidently not.

I do have rudimentary knowledge, but I'm no expert, that's why I said "I understand that" rather than claim perfect knowledge.

BTW - although raised going to synagogue and attending a Jewish school etc, my ex-husband was ethnically Jewish, but not at all religious. As an example, his mum got him to take Rosh Hashanah off work as a religious holiday one year, but I suggested he didn't do it again after he spent the day watching TV and eating bacon sarnies.

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socialdilemmawhattodo · 22/11/2024 23:39

turbonerd · 22/11/2024 21:58

There are definitely muslim men trying to speak out against the very misogynistic elements in Islam. Then they are often met with «you are criticising Islam unfairly» and/or threats of violence against themselves and their families.
Both the muslim men and women who dare to talk about the huge, glaring problems in Islam in public are very Brave - which in itself shows a problem Islam has within its most fundamentalist countries and communities.

Christianity does not issue fatwahs, not anymore.

That's interesting. Thank you for posting.

username8348 · 22/11/2024 23:20

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 23:15

Being married to one Jewish man doesn't make me an expert on Judaism!!

I didn't say you were an expert. I assumed you would have rudimentary knowledge, but evidently not.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 23:15

username8348 · 22/11/2024 23:08

You didn't seem sure about Judaism and joining the religion. I was surprised given that your husband was Jewish.

Being married to one Jewish man doesn't make me an expert on Judaism!!

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AmadeustheAlpaca · 22/11/2024 23:15

I wish that people would stop equating Islam with Christianity. Whenever Muslim extremism is mentioned a poster immediately mentions hard-line Christian beliefs and implies that these are identical to Islamic beliefs.
Christian women are legally treated identically to men, hardly ever have to dress in a particular way and aren't expected to be subservient to men. They are not seen as male property. Women in medieval Europe had more rights than women in some Muslim countries today.
I find the idea of Sharia law in Britain- or anywhere for that matter - very worrying.

username8348 · 22/11/2024 23:08

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 22:59

My ex-husband is Jewish, what's your point?

You didn't seem sure about Judaism and joining the religion. I was surprised given that your husband was Jewish.

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 22:59

username8348 · 22/11/2024 22:18

I thought your husband was Jewish, is that not correct? I'm sure you wrote that on one of your many posts on the conflict in the ME.

My ex-husband is Jewish, what's your point?

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T4phage · 22/11/2024 22:49

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:00

Actually most migrants to the U.K. are Christians.
ONS response to a FOIA on it for 2022

top 3:

219,017 Christians
152,933 No religion
74,218 Muslim

Ratio is 3 Christians immigrating to the U.K. for every 1 Muslim.

cy.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/legalandillegalmigrationtotheukbyreligion cy.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/legalandillegalmigrationtotheukbyreligion]]]]

The ONS say they don't hold data about religion.

Womblingmerrily · 22/11/2024 22:43

@LoremIpsumCici The 2021 Uk census data shows a clear and massive rise in those identifying as muslim and an equally clear and large fall in those identifying as christian in the Uk over the last 10 years.

suburburban · 22/11/2024 22:37

Exactly. Just not in the UK, people want to escape it

username8348 · 22/11/2024 22:36

suburburban · 22/11/2024 22:33

Have they not got anything better to do

Very hard to understand this mentality

There are plenty of countries that have Sharia law, if I were so inclined, I'd move there.

suburburban · 22/11/2024 22:33

HermioneWeasley · 22/11/2024 22:24

A guardian survey showed a shocking proportion of British Muslims want sharia law - its not a niche or extreme position. There is a teacher from Batley still in hiding with his family in fear of his life for showing a picture. People travelled from all over the country to mass outside the school in an attempt to intimidate and force their will.

it’s scary.

I come from the Middle East. I don’t want an Islamic theocracy here.

Have they not got anything better to do

Very hard to understand this mentality

hazelnutvanillalatte · 22/11/2024 22:30

I come from the Middle East. I don’t want an Islamic theocracy here.

Same. My family are from the ME. People are very naive here, and it's always the ones who have very little insight into the reality and think it's all nice and fine. The left and Islam have a long history - the left helps the fundamentalists gain power and are then subdued or killed.

HermioneWeasley · 22/11/2024 22:24

A guardian survey showed a shocking proportion of British Muslims want sharia law - its not a niche or extreme position. There is a teacher from Batley still in hiding with his family in fear of his life for showing a picture. People travelled from all over the country to mass outside the school in an attempt to intimidate and force their will.

it’s scary.

I come from the Middle East. I don’t want an Islamic theocracy here.

username8348 · 22/11/2024 22:18

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:51

It really doesn't. From my understanding, it's traditional for would be converts to be turned away 3 times before they can even consider begin to learn more.

I thought your husband was Jewish, is that not correct? I'm sure you wrote that on one of your many posts on the conflict in the ME.

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:17

Even the early version of my religion, Judaism, was polytheistic and patriarchal- Yahwism.

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:13

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 21:45

You want to say more? Back up your rebuttal?

I’d have to write a book. It would be much easier if you simply read up on different polytheistic religions. Patriarchy long pre-existed monotheism and is almost universal in all times, religions and places.

Even if you just looked at Greek, Roman, Norse, Celtic, Sumerian, Persian, Egyptian, Hindu, Chinese, Japanese, Māori, Aztec, Inca, Zapotec, Ethiopian, Zulu, Igbo, Zoroastrianism, Minoan, Phoenician, Phillistine, Etruscan, Mongol, Nepalese, Scythian ancient religions you’d find eh, polytheism with male gods firmly in charge and the centre of divine power and might.

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:05

T4phage · 22/11/2024 21:59

Not true. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and Christianity is declining in the UK, as we well know.

What isn’t true in my post?

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:02

Christianity does not issue fatwahs, not anymore.

An equivalent to a fatwah is a papal bull. Last one issued was just six months ago.

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:00

soupfiend · 22/11/2024 21:49

I think statistically the majority of newcomers to the UK are not christian so Im not sure why or how the UK would convert to Catholicism

Actually most migrants to the U.K. are Christians.
ONS response to a FOIA on it for 2022

top 3:

219,017 Christians
152,933 No religion
74,218 Muslim

Ratio is 3 Christians immigrating to the U.K. for every 1 Muslim.

To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?
T4phage · 22/11/2024 21:59

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 21:41

The lack of logic is the assumption that immigrants will all be Muslims.
Christianity is the most populous religion in the world. It is more likely that the majority of U.K. will go all Catholic again than Muslim or Hindu.

Not true. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and Christianity is declining in the UK, as we well know.

turbonerd · 22/11/2024 21:58

There are definitely muslim men trying to speak out against the very misogynistic elements in Islam. Then they are often met with «you are criticising Islam unfairly» and/or threats of violence against themselves and their families.
Both the muslim men and women who dare to talk about the huge, glaring problems in Islam in public are very Brave - which in itself shows a problem Islam has within its most fundamentalist countries and communities.

Christianity does not issue fatwahs, not anymore.

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