To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

This spiritual journey didn't go that far if you're just bouncing between two of the sects that grew out of Judaism. It's more of a brisk stroll than a journey.

Yes it's all a bit one way somehow

One thing I noticed was they said they were exercising free speech. I wonder would they support my free speech to say 'Islam go to hell' or 'Muhammad go to hell' in the street on a placard? I would bet not, in fact I would suspect they would want death to me if I did.

Your points were full of assumptions, how embarrassing.

Actually, I do. My married name is the surname of the plantation' owner where my husbands' ancestors were slaves. Do I also need to mention the vile crimes their descendants were subjected to during the segregation area in the USA?
You should never assume anything as it makes you look ill informed, at best.
How interesting that you ignored the points I was making to concentrate on one idiom.

As far as the internet tells me that was issued in March this year ti announce 2025 as a Jubilee year? Hope Does Not Disappoint is its title, apparently.

A fatwah is a death sentence.

I’m happy to be corrected.

And I certainly do not agree with the catholic church on many issues I consider misogynistic.

More concerning that they're often born here but so alienated.
The young girls she niqabed with just reminded me of any other youngster, they seemed to get a kick from getting a reaction.

Also frustrating that the extremists in Luton on Stacey's video are quite happy to enjoy healthcare and other benefits of being in the UK. They don't seem to hate that aspect of being here

Tarbrush? You have no idea of the origins of that statement.

I thought Stacey Dooley's programme was very good, I recognise her experience.

Many "orthodox" Christians and Jews are quite liberal! Orthodoxy isn't the same thing as narrow-minded or fundamentalist. I have quite a few Orthodox Christian friends, including a couple of Coptics, and a bigger number of Jewish friends who would consdier themselves "orthodox". They are all fairly liberal or left -wing. And none of my Muslim friends want Sharia law either. Having faith doesn't mean giving up thinking. Yes, faith can be corrupted, but so can many other things.

I agree. It’s not an Islamic issue. It’s the misuse of religion to oppress, dominate, control and harm others and all religions have a history of this, even Buddhism. Greed and money can do the same and are part of it. Christianity is currently being used in the USA to reduce women’s reproductive rights.
It is the misuse of religion that is the issue. Most, if not all, religions have kindness and tolerance at their core. My FIL is a preacher as a born again Christian and is the least tolerant and most judgmental unempathic person I know.

I agree. There’s so much hypocrisy, justification for misogyny and intolerance in many religions. I refused to attend a Jewish panel of brainwashed, misogynistic men, to sanction my divorce in Jewish law. No way. Sharia, Beth Din have no place in this century imo

What happened when the last supper was denigrated at the Paris Olympics?
The Catholic Church and the religious right thought it denigrated the Last Supper. It doesn't mean it did.
They probably took offence because of who performed it: a drag queen, a transgender model and a naked singer made up as the Greek god of wine Dionysus, not because it was re enacted.
After all, Jesus' message was about inclusion, going against social conventions of his time. He was seen as radical for his views. I think he would have approved.
Why do we accept that one element of society is dangerous and violent rather than stop it?
Every single Muslim is dangerous and violent? Most knife crimes are committed by youths, who happen to be black. Therefore, according to your logic, every person of colour must be dangerous and violent. Can you see how ridiculous your argument is? Don't tar everyone with the same brush, please.

I do not recognise the Last Supper in the scenes from the Paris Olympics ceremony at all. They have also said that it was not inspired on the painting or the Supper itself. Why people keep saying that they mocked Christianity is beyond me.

No I agree with you and identity politics has muddied the waters tremendously with regard to speaking out about it. There’s an so-called progressive section of society that has a lot to answer for because they silence debate with scary words like “Islamophobia”. Couple with cancel culture, it’s made discussion outside the likes of anonymous forums such as MN almost impossible.

And there’s double standards everywhere. There seems for example to be an expectation for all Jews to be answerable to Israel but then British Muslims for example aren’t expected to be answerable to the legalised child raping in Iraq.

What happened when the last supper was denigrated at the Paris Olympics?

Why do we accept that one element of society is dangerous and violent rather than stop it?

Do we just say 'knife crime is rife in London', or do we try and find ways to stop it.

I’m on the fence about the Charlie Hebdoe thing. I think the artists need to take some responsibility/ they poked a very violent and dangerous bear using deeply racist cartoons. I’m not justifying those murders but the rhetoric that it was just about free speech pissed me off. It wasn’t.

Generally, Muslims are supposed to follow the law of the land they are living in and respect the country they are living in.

In France, the cartoonists..and his colleagues were murdered. That's something we usually associate with gang warfare.

It's easier for the media and politicians to whipp up fear with one easy word and group of people than trying to differentiate.

Stacey Doole's report is really good.

It makes full sense. Majority living paralell lives, a bit fearful of the other, but once the ice is broken, they can talk and find lots of common ground.
Then a noisy minority full of hate. Refusing to listen and getting violent. UK go to hell, UK police go to hell. That is what they have on their plackards. They can walk in the streets of UK, because of the democratic and secular laws they so much claim to hate. Then the EDL, refusing to listen to any moderate views and engage in conversation.
I am a foreigner in UK. I abide by UK laws, I respect UK institutions and as much as I know about its history and culture (learning a bit more each day). The day I stop respecting UK sovereignty and the fundamental right of all the citizens to live according to its culture and laws, on its own soil, I will expect to be sent to prison or back where I came from. It is that simple.

I think the problem with any religion which ends up with a reputation is that it happens because it tends to be the extremists who stand out, and the “normal” religious people just carry on with their lives like the rest of us.So e.g. people will say that Christians are all pro life homophobic bigots because those are the Christians we see shouting from the rooftops, and the rest want no part in it so aren’t heard.Similarly people accuse all Muslims of being terrorists who want Sharia law based on the fact there is a minority who will shout it from the rooftops while the rest just live their lives like everyone else.And so it goes on.We need to look at the people rather than what they say. if someone tells me that being gay/a single parent is a sin and I’m going to hell then I judge the person. They just use religion to justify their point, if they say it in the name of God then people will say that “Christians believe that…” rather than that “Mick from down the road believe that…” iyswim?In Afghanistan etc Sharia law is actual law and they are all rightly worthy of judgement, and that seems to apply to all men of that country, so it’s easy to say that Afghani Muslims believe in Sharia law. Whereas Ahmed down the road who believes in Sharia law is an individual unto himself, and all the other Ahmeds, and any other Muslims are just Muslims. IyswimOne of the best, if not the best post I've ever read on MN. Thank you. None jugmental just a gentle way to explain the difference between religion and individual's belief. It's refreshing!

@DieStrassensindimmernass

But did anyone have to go into hiding as a result of the protests

SerendipityJane · Today 10:41
Since that has already happened though, we are where we are.
Show quote history

Yes. I think it’s a real shame. Stops proper discussion.

Which was the whole point. Mind you, it's often the case that the number of possible definitions of a word is equal to the number of people using it plus one.

So two people discussing "nandemophobia" there are probably 3 possible definitions in play.

Now go to hundreds of millions ....

To be honest I've rather lost interest now. I know what I think. I do my best to ensure it doesn't come from ignorance or hatred and the world can jolly well deal with it. Also I try to see people not labels. Some people are total cunts regardless of what they - or anyone else - calls them.

I don't know, I would think intimidation is a bigger part of it but also communities exert pressure in other ways and extremism has different flavours, so parts of it may be seen as following 'true' Islam (I.e. being more conservative) where other aspects are more political, and then there will be a spectrum within all these different factors.

Plus I imagine any individual Muslim or family won't feel responsible for denouncing every nutcase out there, any more than I do as a Christian, while being very uncomfortable about some of what is done in the name of my religion. I would say that without any worries about community rejection though. I don't really do protests either, but looking at the marches for Gaza it does seem that Muslims tend to be more engaged in that respect. So I'm a bit iffy in that it does seem like there's plenty of capacity to organise and advocate for themselves. But I can understand that is a more urgent and unifying issue and isn't about Islam per se anyway.