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To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?

492 replies

Oodiks · 22/11/2024 19:40

I understand that there are different sects within Islam and that while some pose no concerns, others do. I am horrified at the type of Sharia law imposed in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan, which denies women human rights, but it's hard to talk about those reasonable fears without being labelled Islamophobic. It's not unreasonable to fear a religion that imposes such harsh lives on women.

OP posts:
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Kendodd · 23/11/2024 13:48

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:35

on YouTube. There’s a good person explains how the branch of Islam came Judaism and Christianity because they are all Abraham religions. It explains the history and the tree from how they all branched off.

Can you post a link please?

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:47

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:44

@Littlemissgobby As to 'how many muslims do I know', the place I live in has parts where over 50% muslim, rising all the time.

I see primary school children in hijab now and ever growing numbers of women in full burkah.

There are areas I will not go.

I don't see any of this as a good thing.

As my carer says nicab or burqa are not mandated and don’t need to do that at all

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:46

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:44

@Littlemissgobby As to 'how many muslims do I know', the place I live in has parts where over 50% muslim, rising all the time.

I see primary school children in hijab now and ever growing numbers of women in full burkah.

There are areas I will not go.

I don't see any of this as a good thing.

Sounds like where I live I live dewsbury I don’t see no go areas even though daily mail said that .

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 13:46

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:28

Do u realise that prog is old?
The incident in the video clip relates to when Dooley confronted Muslim extremists in Luton who were protesting against the arrest of local woman and wife of the failed suicide bomber in Stockholm, Mona Thorney in 2011. In 2016, hate preacher Anjem Choudary (the cleric seen in the video) was sentenced to five-and-a-half years in prison for urging support to the Islamic State

It was from 2012 I remember watching it and I was really disturbed myself, but this was a time when Anjem Choudhury was about and I am not saying that there is an extreme Muslims that have similar viewpoints now because some do but the vast majority do not so when people talk about that program they put the clips round as if it’s going on now he was stirring up a lot of hatred back then.

Yes, the programme said it was the 10th anniversary of 9/11, I would like to see her do a remake today, I think tensions are even higher and I thought she exploreded a range of viewpoints.

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:44

@Littlemissgobby As to 'how many muslims do I know', the place I live in has parts where over 50% muslim, rising all the time.

I see primary school children in hijab now and ever growing numbers of women in full burkah.

There are areas I will not go.

I don't see any of this as a good thing.

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:40

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:36

@Littlemissgobby but this makes them view themselves as separate and subject to different rules.

It prevents integration.

It does not emphasise the need to respect other people's views.

It puts them in a position of 'we are right' and those unbelievers are wrong and we shouldn't listen to them.

It's incredibly arrogant.

All religions do that Judaism have their own special courts but they still follow the land in the UK. It’s literally just for divorce, et cetera..
I know Christians who believe that everything they worship is correct and everybody else’s worship in Satan, etc
That’s not special to Islam

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 13:39

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 13:20

I rebutted the points you made and your assumption about me.
Your response to this is to do the same. That's called debating.
You have every right to express your opinion on my post, but make sure it is informed and backed up by real counter arguments.

Auvergne63 · Today 11:53
What happened when the last supper was denigrated at the Paris Olympics?
The Catholic Church and the religious right thought it denigrated the Last Supper. It doesn't mean it did.
They probably took offence because of who performed it: a drag queen, a transgender model and a naked singer made up as the Greek god of wine Dionysus, not because it was re enacted. QB(assumption)
After all, Jesus' message was about inclusion, going against social conventions of his time. He was seen as radical for his views. I think he would have approved.QB(assumption)
Why do we accept that one element of society is dangerous and violent rather than stop it?
Every single Muslim is dangerous and violent? QB(your words/assumption, not mine) Most knife crimes are committed by youths, who happen to be black. Therefore, according to your logic, every person of colour must be dangerous and violent.QB(your words/assumption, not mine) Can you see how ridiculous your argument is? QB(I can see how flimsy yours is) Don't tar everyone with the same brush, please.QB(assumption, and a lovely phrase with some racist associations - which you claim to be aware of.)

AV63 You should never assume anything as it makes you look ill informed, at best.
QB Your points were full of assumptions

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:39

@Littlemissgobby 'THe people who look after me are nice' - so what?

Am I saying that all the members of this religious group are horrible - of course not.

I am emphasising that every single one of them must be subject to British law and must understand this - not say that they are subject to a higher law and can therefore do what they like.

There has to be a minimum expectation from people chosing to live in the UK who practice their religions that they follow the law of the land and have basic level of integration - including speaking English.

I think the fact we do not expect this is causing huge problems.

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:36

@Littlemissgobby but this makes them view themselves as separate and subject to different rules.

It prevents integration.

It does not emphasise the need to respect other people's views.

It puts them in a position of 'we are right' and those unbelievers are wrong and we shouldn't listen to them.

It's incredibly arrogant.

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:36

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:33

Also tolerance and respect seriously needs to be demonstrated from Muslim believers to others who do not believe.

I'm not seeing that

How many Muslims do you know because the people that look after me are very nice

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:35

Tabitabtab · 23/11/2024 13:33

Just to me these 2 seem most likely to be the truth. Given the fact that Jesus did exist but also Muhammad (pbuh) also existed and is buried in a tomb in Saudi Arabia. Like did he just make it up? I don't know. That's why I'm still not sure these days.

on YouTube. There’s a good person explains how the branch of Islam came Judaism and Christianity because they are all Abraham religions. It explains the history and the tree from how they all branched off.

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:34

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:31

@ParkBench5 Absolutely disagree.

Sharia is not compatible with British Law.

Minorities should not be allowed to choose which laws of the land they have chosen to reside in to obey.

They obey them all.

Religion needs to be private practice only with no influence on education, health or politics.

Otherwise is it okay if people whose cultural heritage includes the practice of female genital mutilation continue to practice this as it is an important part of their culture?

I don’t think you guys understand how it works in this country. They have to follow the land of this country with the law and that is why female gentle mutilation should And is outlawed but it’s very hard in practice to prosecute
However, when it comes to sharia law, they only do that in terms of marriage and any contracts they have with their own people. Do you know that it happens in Judaism too?

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:33

Also tolerance and respect seriously needs to be demonstrated from Muslim believers to others who do not believe.

I'm not seeing that

Tabitabtab · 23/11/2024 13:33

MonkeyToHeaven · 23/11/2024 13:19

This spiritual journey didn't go that far if you're just bouncing between two of the sects that grew out of Judaism. It's more of a brisk stroll than a journey.

Just to me these 2 seem most likely to be the truth. Given the fact that Jesus did exist but also Muhammad (pbuh) also existed and is buried in a tomb in Saudi Arabia. Like did he just make it up? I don't know. That's why I'm still not sure these days.

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:32

Annabella92 · 23/11/2024 13:30

What was it that justified murder then?

I think that what happened to Charlie HEBDO was absolutely disgusting. I understand people do need to be respectful but satire is satire and there is something about the religion of Islam that a lot of people cannot take satire because they would not be able to do a life of Brian film which yes I get annoyed about too

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:31

@ParkBench5 Absolutely disagree.

Sharia is not compatible with British Law.

Minorities should not be allowed to choose which laws of the land they have chosen to reside in to obey.

They obey them all.

Religion needs to be private practice only with no influence on education, health or politics.

Otherwise is it okay if people whose cultural heritage includes the practice of female genital mutilation continue to practice this as it is an important part of their culture?

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:30

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:25

https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/identity/religion/religion-tb/muslim/

This filter on the 2021 UK census map shows the areas with the highest Muslim populations - on a town by town basis highest is 39.9%

If you zoom in closer it shows areas within towns which have a much higher percentage - in Luton there are areas which are up to 97% Muslim

I live in Dewsbury 54% of people here are Muslim 30% of people are Muslim in Bradford the issue you do find is that because they are part of that community some do not speak any English but then again you could say the same for some English people that live in Spain.
I have now got a lovely carer that looks after me she’s from Pakistan. She’s working hard and she only wears the hijab and she said her husband didn’t even make her do that. She wanted to be closer to her religion but she doesn’t agree with a full face covering now you do find that they do wear sometimes that in Dewsbury and I would say they are the most extreme element of the religion.

Annabella92 · 23/11/2024 13:30

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 11:10

I’m on the fence about the Charlie Hebdoe thing. I think the artists need to take some responsibility/ they poked a very violent and dangerous bear using deeply racist cartoons. I’m not justifying those murders but the rhetoric that it was just about free speech pissed me off. It wasn’t.

What was it that justified murder then?

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 23/11/2024 13:29

turbonerd · 23/11/2024 12:57

As far as the internet tells me that was issued in March this year ti announce 2025 as a Jubilee year? Hope Does Not Disappoint is its title, apparently.

A fatwah is a death sentence.

I’m happy to be corrected.

And I certainly do not agree with the catholic church on many issues I consider misogynistic.

A fatwah isn’t a “death sentence”. 😂
Careful your Islamaphobia is showing.

Littlemissgobby · 23/11/2024 13:28

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 12:19

I thought Stacey Dooley's programme was very good, I recognise her experience.

Do u realise that prog is old?
The incident in the video clip relates to when Dooley confronted Muslim extremists in Luton who were protesting against the arrest of local woman and wife of the failed suicide bomber in Stockholm, Mona Thorney in 2011. In 2016, hate preacher Anjem Choudary (the cleric seen in the video) was sentenced to five-and-a-half years in prison for urging support to the Islamic State

It was from 2012 I remember watching it and I was really disturbed myself, but this was a time when Anjem Choudhury was about and I am not saying that there is an extreme Muslims that have similar viewpoints now because some do but the vast majority do not so when people talk about that program they put the clips round as if it’s going on now he was stirring up a lot of hatred back then.

ParkBench5 · 23/11/2024 13:26

I think what is missing from the anti-Islam side of this discussion is a bit of tolerance and respect. Islam is a religion followed by millions in the U.K., and for many of them Shariah law is a supportive and relevant part of that.

No one is calling for shariah to be imposed on the whole country, but I think we should all have understanding for the fact that it may be appropriate for it to be used in areas with high Muslim populations where there is support for doing so.

I’m not religious, but Shariah provides a valuable framework for life for many men and women around the world and I think it is disrespectful to dismiss it out of hand on the basis of perceived women’s rights concerns. It involves a different role for women, and some adaptation on both sides may be necessary.

Womblingmerrily · 23/11/2024 13:25

https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/identity/religion/religion-tb/muslim/

This filter on the 2021 UK census map shows the areas with the highest Muslim populations - on a town by town basis highest is 39.9%

If you zoom in closer it shows areas within towns which have a much higher percentage - in Luton there are areas which are up to 97% Muslim

Religion - Census Maps, ONS

Census maps is an interactive tool to explore Census 2021 data across England and Wales for different topics down to a neighbourhood level.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/identity/religion/religion-tb/muslim

mumstheword223 · 23/11/2024 13:21

As a Muslim, I would say practicing (I pray, fast etc), I do not see the ‘want’ from Muslims to impose Sharia Law in the UK. I live in a largely diverse city, have attended gatherings at the mosque and never heard anyone say anything about imposing Sharia Law in the UK so reading these posts are really surprising that some of you think this is a major concern. I’ve seen posts of people saying why are Muslims not protesting? Because frankly, there’s nothing to protest! A small minority of people probably do want to have a similar regime to that of Iran, Afghanistan etc, though it’s important to note that they have taken an extreme view of Sharia Law, some aspect which aren’t in line with Islam ie not education women, this was a major point the Prophet peace be upon him noted in his time that women should be educated. Islam actually bought about many rights for women which were non existent at the time. There’s a lot being said about women not being treated equally in Islam, true. Islam doesn’t promote equality, it’s promotes Justice for women. Men and women have different abilities, for example, women can bear children etc. therefore Islam gives women their just right over their male counterparts, a right to his income (her income is her own), a right to request dowry upon marriage with which she can do whatever she wants, a right to request divorce. I will leave an image below which illustrates my point.

But back to the main topic, you can be concerned but as Muslims we are required to also abide by the law of the land and anyone forcing Islam on anyone is wrong according to our faith. I can’t speak for everyone but I can speak for the normal Muslim person who goes about their day, practicing their faith and minding my own business about what others are doing or not doing.

To want a way to label the reasonable fear of the variety of Islam that wishes to impose Sharia law?
LadyGabriella · 23/11/2024 13:21

So much misogyny it’s scary.

Auvergne63 · 23/11/2024 13:20

quantumbutterfly · 23/11/2024 13:07

Your points were full of assumptions, how embarrassing.

I rebutted the points you made and your assumption about me.
Your response to this is to do the same. That's called debating.
You have every right to express your opinion on my post, but make sure it is informed and backed up by real counter arguments.