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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
Lavenderflower · 22/11/2024 12:41

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 10:18

I also have a severely disabled teenager who will never be able to work, I’m not worried about his future because I know the state will provide for him. I know similarly disabled adults who are solely reliant on the state and they live good lives and have lots of opportunities provided for them. So I think the OP is catastrophising a fair bit.
I’m more worried for myself tbh, by the time he is an adult I will have spent 20+ years out of the work place caring for him. None of it’s ideal but there hasn’t been any other choice.

This - In my experience individuals who have inherited money don't actually live better than those who are on benefits and care packages.

Sdpbody · 22/11/2024 12:34

I feel sorry for your other children who are being left out of the will just so your disabled son can carry on having nice holidays and clothes.

sharpclawedkitten · 22/11/2024 11:34

I don’t agree with inheritance tax full stop. It penalises those that have worked hard to pass something on to their children. However in a choice between taxing you and a farmer it will be you I’m afraid

No, it doesn't. It penalises those who hoard their wealth and don't spread it around ahead of time.

The one scenario where I do think it needs reform is where there are dependent children (which could be disabled adults).

If you don't want to pay it, give it to your kids earlier on in your life.

Hateam · 22/11/2024 11:14

Not sure if it has been mentioned but you should look into adding a clause into your will so that the money is placed in a Trust for a Vulnerable Benificiary.

This means the money can not be taken into account for any means tested benefits.

kerstina · 22/11/2024 11:14

I am probably grumpy this morning I usually have more empathy. I think other people have expressed my thoughts better. If we don’t have IT would it be better that the wealthy are not entitled to benefits at all? My dad was disabled. He was on disability benefits and so was not able to have any inheritance as he was on benefits. My Mum worked all her life and has dementia . She is now in a care home and all her money bar £ 25 pound a week pocket money pays for a very basic care home. We all have to suck things up sometimes .Life seems unfair a lot of the time and society is becoming more individualistic.

TheKeatingFive · 22/11/2024 11:10

Bringing farmers into this is a false equivalency. The issue there is that the asset value of the land may be high, but those assets are needed for the business to function.

As for your own situation, consult a FA for your best approach. Good luck.

minipie · 22/11/2024 10:58

I have some sympathy for your position, but what about the disabled people who don't inherit anything from their parents? They also haven't done anything to deserve that situation.
So, on balance, I'd rather increase the amount of inheritance tax that wealthier families pay and increase state support for all disabled people. Including those who are unlucky enough to have parents that wouldn't ever be able to provide for them.
Even after inheritance tax, your ds will still be better off than the vast majority of disabled people.

I agree with this tbh. You want an exemption from IHT to people in your DS’s position, but that would simply further widen the gap between him and all the people with similar (or more severe) needs who will have no such fund behind them.

It would also open up a load of undesirable unintended consequences - we’d have parents trying to prove their child is sufficiently disabled to qualify for such an IHT exemption - leaving everything to the disabled child simply because it won’t be taxed - etc.

As PP says your child will already be far better off than the majority.

Also this has nothing to do with farmers. I don’t necessarily support the farmers’ exemption either but the two are not related, well no more than any two other tax rules are related.

SharpOpalNewt · 22/11/2024 10:35

JaninaDuszejko · 22/11/2024 05:37

Well, just like everyone you can gift your children money before you die and that will not be counted toward the IHT calculations unless within the last 7 years of your life (and there's a sliding scale so something gifted 6 years before death is taxed less than something gifted 1 year before death). So you can downsize to a property worth £350K (e.g. a larger than average house) without losing your IHT £1M limit and start gifting now. Of course it depends how big your estate is whether that is an option and as usual those who are just over the IHT limits have fewer options than those who are far over.

Speak to a IFA and start planning now. And start writing to your MP and talking to disabled charities and campaigning for a change in the law. It's surely to the governments advantage if wealthy parents can leave enough to a disabled child to pay for them for the rest of their life.

Yes exactly, or the state would pick up the tab anyway. It saves money, quite apart from the human aspect.

I bet there are loads more disabled adults in this position than there are estates affected by ending the agricultural IHT relief.

ZeldaFighter · 22/11/2024 10:24

OP, I am so sorry for the situation you find yourself in. My child is mildly disabled so we hope he will be able to work in adulthood- it must be terrifying to think otherwise.

I would support a campaign on this issue.

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 10:18

I also have a severely disabled teenager who will never be able to work, I’m not worried about his future because I know the state will provide for him. I know similarly disabled adults who are solely reliant on the state and they live good lives and have lots of opportunities provided for them. So I think the OP is catastrophising a fair bit.
I’m more worried for myself tbh, by the time he is an adult I will have spent 20+ years out of the work place caring for him. None of it’s ideal but there hasn’t been any other choice.

Dragonsandcats · 22/11/2024 10:17

Stop having a go at farmers, many smaller farms will be caught up in this and worrying about it. You don’t understand it. The money in smaller farms is in land, buildings, machinery which are all needed to farm. I hope you can get some specialist tax advice to help your situation.

LBFseBrom · 22/11/2024 10:15

Guest100 · 22/11/2024 04:20

I would talk to a financial advisor. They might have a way around this by putting money in a trust.

I agree with that, I have known people who have done something like that to protect a disabled child.

Op, don't feel upset about the farmers, making comparisons does not help. Quetion Time was very good last night, this being a major topic of discussion. Many farmers are asset rich and cash poor.

Holly184 · 22/11/2024 10:13

Could you buy your son a home just now so he is familiar with it ? Then when your no longer here he can inherit as much as is allowed to live off along with pip . I appreciate its not the lifestyle hes maybe used to but it might be a bit better than living on just pip / universal credit alone when the money runs out ? Im sure a financial advisor can help .
However i agree with you , ultimately what you want to do is leave provision for your son's care which means he isn't having to rely on benefits ( which in turn benefits the state ?)
However i also think that no disabled person should have to live in poverty ,as a society we should ensure benefits are enough to have a nice life as their circumstances are not their fault .

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 10:09

@WeWillGetThereInTheEnd

What will happen to the DC who are completely incapable of caring for themselves? Are you saying the threshold will just change as they can’t close ALL care homes, surely?

DancingOctopus · 22/11/2024 10:04

I can see that you are in a very difficult situation. A relative of mine is in a similar one as regards finding care for a disabled child after they die. I have no idea about their financial situation.
I know nothing about the law but think you should take legal advice, specifically from a law firm who understands the law surrounding disabilities and making provision in this specific case. I assume that these exist.
Good luck.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 10:00

Sorry OP I have read your subsequent posts and realise you are pretty well versed on the topic of trusts.

Vinvertebrate · 22/11/2024 09:59

Everything that @Sceptical123 wrote above.

Appalling insensitivity on this thread. How dare the OP have a bit of money AND a disabled child?

My disabled DS will never work either. DH and I are trying to provide him with a small buy-to-let business so that he can have an income and some independence. State provision for his disability has been woeful, so we fear him being dependent on it. The OP is absolutely reasonable.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 09:57

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:36

Before people write a response just for a moment imagine that the only future for your adult child is a lifetime on benefits.

Your child might have worked their hardest at school and even got decent qualifications. They might be even happy to work hard outside school. They are depressed and at times suicidal because they know they have few life chances no matter how hard they work. If they get any form of employment it would have to be heavily scaffolded and supported.

Their brain is wired such that they talk to themselves or have mad moments of agitation etc. They might struggle to do simple tasks like cleaning or have muscle weakness so can’t do labouring jobs. Frankly using a microwave might be hazardous for them. They leave a mess of broken things.

If my child had zero insight it would be better but my son has insight, He’s scared of rougher areas and walking in city centres etc. Poverty will be hard for him.

£335,000 over say 50 years is not going to provide much additional support allowing for inflation. Allowing only a 1% drawdown ( it has to last 50 years) that’s an additional 3350 above universal credit rate per annum. The PIP in reality should cover the additional costs of disability.

My DH’s disabled DC can’t get himself dressed or wipe his own arse. He has absolutely zero prospects of ever being employed - he can’t even be in the house unattended let alone have meaningful employment.

I appreciate the difficultly OP.

OrwellianTimes · 22/11/2024 09:57

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:13

Farming might be vital but according to the NFU itself most farms are worth below 3 million so those farmers will not be affected.

As a caring society do we think it right that if you have the misfortune to be born disabled there is little state help to assist parents to provide for their offspring via tax allowances thus the likelihood is that their kid will have a life of relative poverty.

We do accept that the disabled person is blameless and did not cause their poverty?

I’m sorry for the situation your son is in, but it’s not at all comparable to farming. The farm inheritance is a business - they are taxing the inheritance of fields and barns, not of £3 million cash. It’s more akin to taxing the clothes he’s wearing than the cash in your bank.

You need to talk to a financial advisor asap and see if you can get a trust set up for your son. I know the tax is painful, but if you’re in the position to leave him £1million then he is significantly better off than many people in his situation.

Ceeceele · 22/11/2024 09:55

Where do you think IHT goes? You’ve advised your son will need care and benefits for the rest of his life. The taxpayer will pay for this (rightly). It’s great tax can pay for this.

holju · 22/11/2024 09:55

My adult cousin has autism, his meltdowns alone mean he will never be able work, or advocate for himself. His parents worry constantly about his future. People who don't know anyone in this situation perhaps don't understand the stress it causes, or see the toll it takes on the parents. However, the main issue here is that disabled adults shouldn't have to rely on an inheritance to have their needs met.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 09:54

OP we have the same dilemma and I agree - do get some advice though as if you leave him a cash sum it might impact his entitlement to benefits and would be an administrative nightmare if that was the case and you weren’t around to sort it.

Thepurplepig · 22/11/2024 09:50

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:56

Sorry it’s relevant.

More tax free inheritance for farmers equals more tax on other peoples estate. IHT is expected to raise x amount seemingly or no allowances to pass on income to severely disabled children free of tax.

Years ago gifts into trust for disabled kids could have been made free of IHT and also CGT without having to live 7 years. There were far generous tax allowances but that was taken away.

It is relevant. I agree.

It is relevant because it it more important to feed the nation than it is for your son to live in the comfort he has become accustomed to. There are many disabled children living in residential care that have nothing at all. They manage just fine.

I don’t agree with inheritance tax full stop. It penalises those that have worked hard to pass something on to their children. However in a choice between taxing you and a farmer it will be you I’m afraid.

user8634216758 · 22/11/2024 09:46

Getting rid of family farms, which is what IHT on farmland will cause in a couple of generations will mean the productive countryside will be ALL mega farms, most likely owned by overseas investors and the mega rich. Carbon tax and green washing industrial pollution tree planting schemes.
Food will rocket in price.
The Farmhouses and 20 acres will be bought by the wealthy as holiday homes.
Food security is a massive concern in these turbulent times.

I understand your desire to leave your kids your assets though OP - we have an only child for that reason, that I know if we die they will be okay financially. I don’t believe anyone should pay inheritance tax.

Memyselfmilly · 22/11/2024 09:46

Sceptical123 · 22/11/2024 09:33

I am truly staggered at the lack of human fucking empathy on this thread. Staggered.

Farms are asset rich, cash poor. The need to asset to live.

Disabled* *children, who will hopefully turn into adults, need the means to live too.

The farming is a separate issue and obv needs addressing, the OP will probably regret referencing them as there is a lot of emotion attached to this topic, which many ppl quite rightly feel strongly about.

But just take the farming element out of her post for a moment.

This lady has come on here to ask advice for her extremely sensitive situation and apart from a couple of posts from ppl in similar circumstances, or with close family members in similar circumstances. the level of hostility and condescension on here is unreal. I had to stop reading them bc it was just upsetting and awful.

These posters lack any scrap of understanding or sympathy for what this OP’s life is like (probably bc they’ve written her off as rich - so zero sympathy deserved in any circumstance) and are making light of the fact she is concerned - things like ‘with this figure in the bank, why are you worried?’ ‘Ppl who claim benefits can’t expect nicer things’, etc. and there are many more.

I’m disgusted. This isn’t a woman trying to fuck the system, she is looking for support. The vast number of these posters don’t have children with disabilities. Their outlook is unfortunately common in our society. Why should you be given special treatment? Fundamentally it boils down to: Me and my children aren’t getting any benefits, why are you getting money or expecting what we’re not?

This isn’t a dig at the poster I’m quoting particularly as she had the grace to tack on that she feels for the parent of any disabled child. The thing is that’s lip service isn’t it. To say you don’t would make you scum. You can’t say you dislike ppl with disabilities - especially children. Thats not nice is it. And worse, other nice, normal ppl wouldn’t think you were very nice. I have encountered so many ppl that are the stereotypical cliche of nice, middle-class, church-going, environmental-campaigning nice ppl. When they’re not really very nice at all regarding this topic. But it’s not a class thing as hard-working salt of the earths can also resent ppl claiming benefits for ‘so-called’ disabilities when they have to go out to work long hours themsleves and aren’t living in the lap of luxury, neither are their kids. It seems to be centred on money. Perhaps survival. I resent you for having what we don’t - hate the rich, hate ppl on benefits, even if you do technically deserve it bc your life is challenging in ways mine isn’t and never will be (but I don’t like to/ can’t be bothered to think about that aspect). And I still resent you, as at the end of the day why should your child get it and not mine?

My rant is over, I’ll no doubt get shit for it, I don’t care. Before you angrily click away at me put yourselves in this lady’s shoes for 60 seconds imagining what she has, is and will be going through. I’m not talking about the daily slog of parenting with a lazy-arsed husband, being a single parent or anything like that, I’m talking about being the mother of a child who struggles daily and probably will for the rest of their life. The emotional impact of this alone is unimaginable to ppl who aren’t in this situation. You will never understand but try to.

My heart breaks for you OP, and everyone else in similar situations. I wish you and your families all the luck and good will in the world and I hope you get all the support you need and deserve to ensure your children are looked after and are happy 💐

I have great sympathy for her situation but she actually didn’t come to ask for advice. As she has said she has taken professional advice on wills and financial planning.