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To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 19:28

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 17:24

So you think those disabled children who aren’t left money and will have to rely on benefits will be the scruffy smelly hole in shoes ones?

It’s ok to want the best for your DC.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/11/2024 19:05

There are lots of policy decisions made about tax. Ultimately for every tax allowances or tax free investment someone else pays more tax. If you give a tax cut to one you make more tax payable by others as the overall tax income requirement is set.

Yes, I think this is absolutely right. And I guess what I'm saying is, in that world of difficult choices and limited resources, I would prioritise support for vulnerable and/or disabled people on low incomes over and above your disabled son getting a slightly bigger inheritance. That's not because I think your ds doesn't deserve as much support as he can get, but simply because I think there are other equally deserving people who need support as well. Even after the inheritance tax, your ds stands to inheritance significant amount of money, so be will still be much better off than many. It isn't a race to the bottom, of course, but when resources are limited, choices have to be made.

SleeplessInWherever · 22/11/2024 17:57

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 17:24

So you think those disabled children who aren’t left money and will have to rely on benefits will be the scruffy smelly hole in shoes ones?

Look tidy is a good one. Why are you so bothered whether someone in the street thinks your son looks good.

We’re still alive and not millionaires - ours looks like he lives in a skip. He’s covered in crisps, or mud, or some other stuff. But he’s happy and cared for so who gives a shit.

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 17:32

caringcarer · 22/11/2024 16:48

You don't seem to be taking on board if you leave your disabled DS £300k he won't get UC.

I think you’ve laboured that point enough for her to be aware. Why should someone, disabled or not, be entitled to universal credit if they’re minted? Why should taxpayers on the bones of their arse subsidise someone with a six figure sum?

SunSparkle · 22/11/2024 17:26

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

https://www.mencap.org.uk/advice-and-support/wills-and-trusts-service?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA9IC6BhA3EiwAsbltOMC4w9RiLlPjEy72Z-hFyQYpFH7YF-nKAWDTyLeBt1MezeozhnPeVRoCxEgQAvD_BwE&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=1766811505&utm_term=mencap%20wills%20and%20trusts

have you worked with mencap to discuss the options for trusts? Can you set up a trust now rather than after IHT?

Wills and Trusts service

Do you have a child with a learning disability? Find out all about our Wills and Trusts services and how we can help with securing their financial future.

https://www.mencap.org.uk/advice-and-support/wills-and-trusts-service?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA9IC6BhA3EiwAsbltOMC4w9RiLlPjEy72Z-hFyQYpFH7YF-nKAWDTyLeBt1MezeozhnPeVRoCxEgQAvD_BwE

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 17:24

Noras · 22/11/2024 16:49

The vulnerable trust acts as a vehicle to ensure he has no assets himself so they are shielded from UC and social care.

All I want is for him to be in a cosy safe home, able to receive dental care, have access to a quiet swimming pool with a PA and maybe once every 2 years a holiday with a Pa and not look like the person we see wandering around looking scruffy, unshaven in dirty smelly clothes with holes on their shoes. As long as he looks tidy, is happy and kept healthy - job done.

So you think those disabled children who aren’t left money and will have to rely on benefits will be the scruffy smelly hole in shoes ones?

ObelixtheGaul · 22/11/2024 17:14

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:36

Before people write a response just for a moment imagine that the only future for your adult child is a lifetime on benefits.

Your child might have worked their hardest at school and even got decent qualifications. They might be even happy to work hard outside school. They are depressed and at times suicidal because they know they have few life chances no matter how hard they work. If they get any form of employment it would have to be heavily scaffolded and supported.

Their brain is wired such that they talk to themselves or have mad moments of agitation etc. They might struggle to do simple tasks like cleaning or have muscle weakness so can’t do labouring jobs. Frankly using a microwave might be hazardous for them. They leave a mess of broken things.

If my child had zero insight it would be better but my son has insight, He’s scared of rougher areas and walking in city centres etc. Poverty will be hard for him.

£335,000 over say 50 years is not going to provide much additional support allowing for inflation. Allowing only a 1% drawdown ( it has to last 50 years) that’s an additional 3350 above universal credit rate per annum. The PIP in reality should cover the additional costs of disability.

But for many parents, there won't be anything close to £350,000 for their disabled child. I don't think it's that people aren't sympathetic to the issues facing what happens to their children if they are severely disabled when Mum and Dad pass on. Most average families in that situation won't have anything like that to leave.

As has been said, parents of severely disabled children often have to make sacrifices, which means they aren't generally looking at tipping the scales enough for inheritance tax to be a concern. My own parents didn't have those sacrifices as none of their children were disabled, and they are perfectly comfortable, but there's no way their estate is worth enough to trigger IHT. I would have thought that's most people.

Your son will still be better off than the majority facing this situation. It's a horrible position to be in, and I am not invalidating your concerns, but this isn't really about the IHT, since you would have the same problem (only without even £350k) if your assets were closer to the average.

This is about the scandalous lack of social provision for people in your son's situation.

Noras · 22/11/2024 16:49

caringcarer · 22/11/2024 16:44

@Noras, if you leave your disabled DS a lot of money he won't be entitled to UC.

The vulnerable trust acts as a vehicle to ensure he has no assets himself so they are shielded from UC and social care.

All I want is for him to be in a cosy safe home, able to receive dental care, have access to a quiet swimming pool with a PA and maybe once every 2 years a holiday with a Pa and not look like the person we see wandering around looking scruffy, unshaven in dirty smelly clothes with holes on their shoes. As long as he looks tidy, is happy and kept healthy - job done.

OP posts:
caringcarer · 22/11/2024 16:48

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:05

You have a combined one million allowance re the main house.

However clearly my son won’t inherit one million as he is not an only child and I’m not going to cut out of the will the other kids.

£300,000 over 50 years of life even if added to benefits is not a great life. A lot of the benefits would have to fund actual costs of disability eg PA expenses, taxis, additional laundry, additional breakages etc.

You don't seem to be taking on board if you leave your disabled DS £300k he won't get UC.

caringcarer · 22/11/2024 16:44

@Noras, if you leave your disabled DS a lot of money he won't be entitled to UC.

Noras · 22/11/2024 16:27

Thanks. I do have an interest in tax and estate planning.

Here goes.

Standard discretionary trusts are useful but not in this instance as they occur I believe an automatic 20% IHT charge in and thereafter a regular charge every 10 years of 10% value.

Vulnerable persons trusts do not attract the every 10 year charge ( See below the trust)
However they will attract IHT on death or act as a PET if made during life ( so you have to live 7 years)

We had a solicitor draw up wills, I also have a financial adviser etc.

As it is a decade or more ago there were reliefs from eg CGT and maybe IHT for assets paid into the equivalent disabled trust but these were removed ( with no fanfare or big demonstration in London)

Gov Website re the Trusts

Trusts for vulnerable people
Some trusts for disabled people or children get special tax treatment. These are called 'trusts for vulnerable beneficiaries'
Who qualifies as a vulnerable beneficiary
A vulnerable beneficiary is either someone under 18 whose parent has died or a disabled person who is eligible for any of the following benefits (even if they do not receive them):

  • Adult Disability Payment
  • Armed Forces Independence Payment
  • Attendance Allowance
  • Child Disability Payment
  • Constant Attendance Allowance
  • Disability Living Allowance for adults or
  • Disability Living Allowance for children (either the care component at the highest or middle rate, or the mobility component at the higher rate)
  • Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
  • Pension Age Disability Payment
  • Personal Independence Payment
A vulnerable beneficiary can also be someone who is unable to manage their own affairs because of a mental health condition - check with a medical professional that it's covered by 8 www.gov.uk

Welcome to GOV.UK

GOV.UK - The best place to find government services and information.

http://www.gov.uk

OP posts:
SwankyPants · 22/11/2024 16:14

Check out Mencap. They have webinars on this subject, with advice from solicitors who know this stuff. You need to set up a trust so it doesn't affect any benefits that he might be entitled to.

Jennywren2000 · 22/11/2024 16:14

You definitely need proper advice from a qualified and specialist accountant.

For example you can use a discretionary trust for a severely disabled person in order to provide discretionary payments for eg care and therapy without it impacting on what they ‘own’. It’s a particular kind of trust used in very specific circumstances.

So your OP is actually incorrect and really if you’re considering leaving vast amounts of money to a very vulnerable person you need proper advice to prevent them being taken advantage of and to ensure that they are able to receive care provided by the local authority etc.

anniegun · 22/11/2024 16:07

I have more sympathy with you than all the rich landowners campaigning for special status.

Noras · 22/11/2024 15:58

5128gap · 22/11/2024 14:58

The figures you are calculating are not 'over benefits' but instead of benefits as the inheritance will render him ineligible for all but PIP. He will live on the money you leave for several years until he has spent it down to the UC threshold figure, saving the public purse. For this reason I don't think YABU. Your money is not going to add to the wealth of the already wealthy, it is preventing your son being as reliant on the state as he would otherwise be. So unless the IHT comes to more than the cost in benefits, it would be cost effective to make an exemption in situations like yours.

The money will go into a vulnerable persons trust and there is no claw back from benefits for him as he has no control of the money what so ever.

I will probably also do a life insurance bond on my other kids lives in his favour which will end when they die but in meantime can be drawn down in small amounts to use for him.

OP posts:
sunshine244 · 22/11/2024 15:57

I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy.

1.2 million unpaid carers across the UK are living in poverty, with 1 in 10 of all carers in deep poverty. Very few people with disabled children will have anywhere near the inheritance tax threshold to pass on to them. Unless a miracle happens my disabled sons won't get much, and as I'm stuck on part time work and underemployed due to my carer role I'm facing an incredibly poor retirement too.

I think that disability benefits should be higher in a lot of cases and more done to support carers. But why should disabled people get benefits and also tax free inheritance. Makes no sense. Better to keep the tax in place and use the money to increase all disabled people and carer welfare.

WutheringTights · 22/11/2024 15:45

Noras · 22/11/2024 05:36

Before people write a response just for a moment imagine that the only future for your adult child is a lifetime on benefits.

Your child might have worked their hardest at school and even got decent qualifications. They might be even happy to work hard outside school. They are depressed and at times suicidal because they know they have few life chances no matter how hard they work. If they get any form of employment it would have to be heavily scaffolded and supported.

Their brain is wired such that they talk to themselves or have mad moments of agitation etc. They might struggle to do simple tasks like cleaning or have muscle weakness so can’t do labouring jobs. Frankly using a microwave might be hazardous for them. They leave a mess of broken things.

If my child had zero insight it would be better but my son has insight, He’s scared of rougher areas and walking in city centres etc. Poverty will be hard for him.

£335,000 over say 50 years is not going to provide much additional support allowing for inflation. Allowing only a 1% drawdown ( it has to last 50 years) that’s an additional 3350 above universal credit rate per annum. The PIP in reality should cover the additional costs of disability.

Life insurance might be a good option for you if you're young enough and in good enough health for it to be affordable. If the policy is written into trust it should still pass to him exempt from IHT. You could look at policies that reduce the payout over time, so he gets less if you die when he's older (and therefore potentially needs less due to lower remaining life expectancy). Remember that he'll get some form of state pension or pension credit at retirement age too. Best to speak to an IFA to understand your options here.

5128gap · 22/11/2024 14:58

The figures you are calculating are not 'over benefits' but instead of benefits as the inheritance will render him ineligible for all but PIP. He will live on the money you leave for several years until he has spent it down to the UC threshold figure, saving the public purse. For this reason I don't think YABU. Your money is not going to add to the wealth of the already wealthy, it is preventing your son being as reliant on the state as he would otherwise be. So unless the IHT comes to more than the cost in benefits, it would be cost effective to make an exemption in situations like yours.

ShinyBinLid · 22/11/2024 14:30

Ceeceele · 22/11/2024 09:55

Where do you think IHT goes? You’ve advised your son will need care and benefits for the rest of his life. The taxpayer will pay for this (rightly). It’s great tax can pay for this.

This, to be honest. Most families of disabled people are not paying for their care (see my post above where I worked at a place that cost over 100k a year per resident to run).

Would you rather we pay for this kind of thing through taxation, or that it was only available to those who can fund it themselves? And if so, what happens to those that can't?

If you agree that tax should fund these services, but don't like IHT, how would you suggest we raise the shortfall?

Noras · 22/11/2024 13:39

whatkatydid2014 · 22/11/2024 12:56

If it were invested with a 3% return and you wanted 50% of the return to be retained as captital it would be £350 a month as income.
It wouldn’t pay for that much I guess. How much do you need to cover care/support for a lifetime & does anyone outside the super wealthy have the money to fund it?

I built in inflation to my assessment.

OP posts:
IOSTT · 22/11/2024 13:04

OP, NOBODY chooses to be disabled.

No government has EVER given a crap about the people, they only care about their own power, money and lifestyle.

Many disabled people live in poverty. Your son is privileged compared to 99% of the people on this planet (I am bedbound and reliant on inadequate carers, so I am not coming from a place of no understanding). It all sucks, but there’s very little any of us can do about it, all you can do is the best for your son - live in a house that he can manage in when he is on his own, or ask his siblings if he can live with one of them in later years so he has a secure home. Financial advisor for everything else.

whatkatydid2014 · 22/11/2024 12:56

Noras · 22/11/2024 07:03

It’s really not that much annually.

It gives an additional £350 or so over benefits per annum .

If it were invested with a 3% return and you wanted 50% of the return to be retained as captital it would be £350 a month as income.
It wouldn’t pay for that much I guess. How much do you need to cover care/support for a lifetime & does anyone outside the super wealthy have the money to fund it?

SleeplessInWherever · 22/11/2024 12:50

Appleandoranges · 22/11/2024 12:46

Whatever the right way to handle inheritance tax, some people do seem to be worryingly callous to adults with disabilities and their families! I feel for op and parents like her. It's a very hard and stressful situation to be in. To be constantly worrying about what will happen to your grown up children when you die before them.

It’s about perspective for me.

I understand OP means relative poverty, compared to his life now, but still.

Lots of parents of disabled children worry for their future, but there are many that won’t inherit a large sum of money and won’t just end up going in the bin.

Even with IHT, her leaving a sum of money will still be a benefit that other disabled children/adults don’t get. If we did have money to leave, I’d just factor the tax into that and plan for what will be left, it’s better than the nothing we are like to be able to leave.

Appleandoranges · 22/11/2024 12:46

Whatever the right way to handle inheritance tax, some people do seem to be worryingly callous to adults with disabilities and their families! I feel for op and parents like her. It's a very hard and stressful situation to be in. To be constantly worrying about what will happen to your grown up children when you die before them.

Lavenderflower · 22/11/2024 12:43

Sdpbody · 22/11/2024 12:34

I feel sorry for your other children who are being left out of the will just so your disabled son can carry on having nice holidays and clothes.

I suspect she trying provide for her future, however there is no guarantee he will get nice holiday and clothes.