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To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
Noras · 23/11/2024 14:17

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 13:55

There are numerous exceptions to a universal credit claw back: In fact there are pages of them.

That doesn’t make it right. Maybe if we didn’t have those we wouldn’t have 30% of children in the UK living in poverty.

Well assuming that severely disabled people are otherwise only on pip and universal credit it lifts a few marginally above poverty.

On your argument all severely disabled people should remain in poverty.

I have a choice to leave money to my non disabled kids or to leave some into a vulnerable persons trust. Either way my son will get universal credit and pip. He has significant needs. He will just have to rely on his siblings to help him out from time to time.

OP posts:
LordEmsworth · 23/11/2024 14:15

Noras · 23/11/2024 08:49

Clearly I’m not ignoring everyone. I have made a will including a vulnerable person’s trust. As things stand I can’t afford to give away money and live for 7 year and frankly it’s too early for that. I do intend to downsize as and when appropriate. Clearly everyone can do that including farmers - they can also give away assets when the time comes.

Also you have huge ignorance about tax as in fact IHT is usually incurred because the alternative rice which is to sell or gift assets in life usually includes a CGT charge and then the asset re based from gift whereas if assets are inherited you get a re base for CGT purposes at death.( which is later).

Only the Uber wealthy can genuinely escape IHT. I speak as someone who clearly took exams in tax.

Clearly I’m not ignoring everyone
But LOTS of PP have said "get financial advice" and you haven't acknowledged that. So you are ignoring us!

You haven't mentioned whole of life insurance, which is not "escaping" IHT but ensuring that there are funds to pay it without cashing in the estate. You only seem to be interested in sneering at and talking down to people who are trying to be helpful; if you think you know better than everyone, then you may as well have not posted.

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 13:55

There are numerous exceptions to a universal credit claw back: In fact there are pages of them.

That doesn’t make it right. Maybe if we didn’t have those we wouldn’t have 30% of children in the UK living in poverty.

Noras · 23/11/2024 13:26

AmberFawn · 22/11/2024 10:18

I also have a severely disabled teenager who will never be able to work, I’m not worried about his future because I know the state will provide for him. I know similarly disabled adults who are solely reliant on the state and they live good lives and have lots of opportunities provided for them. So I think the OP is catastrophising a fair bit.
I’m more worried for myself tbh, by the time he is an adult I will have spent 20+ years out of the work place caring for him. None of it’s ideal but there hasn’t been any other choice.

I start work in 2 weeks time after 21 years. It can be done. My son now has social care so I have more freedom.

OP posts:
Noras · 23/11/2024 13:24

Bjorkdidit · 23/11/2024 10:14

There's a difference between using widely available and known about provisions to encourage people to build up relatively modest amounts of savings and to save for their own retirement and anything where you need specialist advice to learn about it, set it up and run it and are not using it for intended purposes, eg buying farms to avoid IHT rather than primarily for the business of farming. Or in this case so that the money is disregarded when being assessed for income related benefits.

The purpose of a vulnerable trust is to allow a severely disabled person to have some money not taken by universal credit and social care.

What other purpose is there.

Also because the person can’t actually handle money and has lot and lots of expenses more than most people eg needs trustees etc.

The purpose of farm land relief was to support farmers not tv personalities. I use what the Government explicitly allow.

For what it’s worth also if you have an accident and someone pays you compensation that is also shielded from a universal credit and social care claw back. Eg compensation for an RTA.

There are numerous exceptions to a universal credit claw back: In fact there are pages of them.

OP posts:
Noras · 23/11/2024 13:19

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 09:27

You can do whatever you like, obviously. I wouldn’t because I have no problem with paying the tax I’m liable for. Every £ of tax avoided affects someone worse off and I’m not cool with that. I find it morally repellent that anyone wealthy would arrange their affairs so that universal credit could be claimed at the expense of a taxpayer on minimum wage.

What rubbish - you take advantage of your personal allowance - you don’t say oh I don’t want that. You also have saved in tax by paying into a pension.

Frankly the whole point of vulnerable trusts is to help severely disabled people. I suggest that you go and mix with them and speak to then.

At present there are some in absolute despair on supported living thinking that their lives are not worth living.

Yes I will use any legitimate and government accepted way to support my son like any normal parent - it’s what it is there for.

As my son was under suicide watch (indeed more recently he was sent home from life skills because he wanted to die) I will do anything for him and frankly having to hear him say he wishes he was dead and what is the point of his life as he’s rubbish is a bit heart breaking.

OP posts:
BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 10:36

Boohoo76 · 23/11/2024 10:18

Ah, so some tax avoidance is OK and some is not. Thought so! I really don’t see any difference between a parent saving into a trust for a disabled child to ensure that they have a secure future and someone saving into a pension so they have a secure retirement.

The difference is that the pension is taxed on the way out and its recipient isn’t entitled to benefits - other than the state pension to which they’ve also contributed.

Boohoo76 · 23/11/2024 10:18

Bjorkdidit · 23/11/2024 10:14

There's a difference between using widely available and known about provisions to encourage people to build up relatively modest amounts of savings and to save for their own retirement and anything where you need specialist advice to learn about it, set it up and run it and are not using it for intended purposes, eg buying farms to avoid IHT rather than primarily for the business of farming. Or in this case so that the money is disregarded when being assessed for income related benefits.

Ah, so some tax avoidance is OK and some is not. Thought so! I really don’t see any difference between a parent saving into a trust for a disabled child to ensure that they have a secure future and someone saving into a pension so they have a secure retirement.

Bjorkdidit · 23/11/2024 10:14

Boohoo76 · 23/11/2024 09:48

You don’t use ISAs then? Don’t save into a pension?

There's a difference between using widely available and known about provisions to encourage people to build up relatively modest amounts of savings and to save for their own retirement and anything where you need specialist advice to learn about it, set it up and run it and are not using it for intended purposes, eg buying farms to avoid IHT rather than primarily for the business of farming. Or in this case so that the money is disregarded when being assessed for income related benefits.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 23/11/2024 10:04

Noras · 23/11/2024 09:01

True but the choice seems to be that the over rich with many millions pay no IHT - They can afford to give away millions before death.

I agree, so we need to find better ways of ensuring that the ultra-rich contribute their fair share, both through inheritance tax but also through other taxes while they are alive. That doesn't let the rest of us off the hook though. We should each contribute according to our means.

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 10:04

Boohoo76 · 23/11/2024 09:48

You don’t use ISAs then? Don’t save into a pension?

I’m already drawing my pension and paying tax on it - that’s how it works, no tax going in, taxed coming out. No ISAs. And neither of those things are comparable to someone with a six figure sum claiming a benefit that’s intended for people in poverty.

Boohoo76 · 23/11/2024 09:48

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 09:27

You can do whatever you like, obviously. I wouldn’t because I have no problem with paying the tax I’m liable for. Every £ of tax avoided affects someone worse off and I’m not cool with that. I find it morally repellent that anyone wealthy would arrange their affairs so that universal credit could be claimed at the expense of a taxpayer on minimum wage.

You don’t use ISAs then? Don’t save into a pension?

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 09:27

Noras · 23/11/2024 08:59

I would be a complete fool not to use a vulnerable person trust for its intended purpose. I’m sure that you would do the same for your severely disabled kid of grandchild if one day you have one.

You can do whatever you like, obviously. I wouldn’t because I have no problem with paying the tax I’m liable for. Every £ of tax avoided affects someone worse off and I’m not cool with that. I find it morally repellent that anyone wealthy would arrange their affairs so that universal credit could be claimed at the expense of a taxpayer on minimum wage.

Noras · 23/11/2024 09:01

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/11/2024 19:05

There are lots of policy decisions made about tax. Ultimately for every tax allowances or tax free investment someone else pays more tax. If you give a tax cut to one you make more tax payable by others as the overall tax income requirement is set.

Yes, I think this is absolutely right. And I guess what I'm saying is, in that world of difficult choices and limited resources, I would prioritise support for vulnerable and/or disabled people on low incomes over and above your disabled son getting a slightly bigger inheritance. That's not because I think your ds doesn't deserve as much support as he can get, but simply because I think there are other equally deserving people who need support as well. Even after the inheritance tax, your ds stands to inheritance significant amount of money, so be will still be much better off than many. It isn't a race to the bottom, of course, but when resources are limited, choices have to be made.

True but the choice seems to be that the over rich with many millions pay no IHT - They can afford to give away millions before death.

OP posts:
Noras · 23/11/2024 08:59

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 20:55

It is if she’s trying to arrange her affairs to avoid IHT and keep him eligible for universal credit.

I would be a complete fool not to use a vulnerable person trust for its intended purpose. I’m sure that you would do the same for your severely disabled kid of grandchild if one day you have one.

OP posts:
Noras · 23/11/2024 08:49

LordEmsworth · 22/11/2024 20:45

I have read everything you have written. Including that you have a financial adviser but have not actually asked them to advise you about estate planning.

Someone once called IHT a voluntary tax paid by those who despise their relatives more than they distrust the Inland Revenue. You can do something about it, it's not clear why you ignore EVERYONE pointing this out.

Clearly I’m not ignoring everyone. I have made a will including a vulnerable person’s trust. As things stand I can’t afford to give away money and live for 7 year and frankly it’s too early for that. I do intend to downsize as and when appropriate. Clearly everyone can do that including farmers - they can also give away assets when the time comes.

Also you have huge ignorance about tax as in fact IHT is usually incurred because the alternative rice which is to sell or gift assets in life usually includes a CGT charge and then the asset re based from gift whereas if assets are inherited you get a re base for CGT purposes at death.( which is later).

Only the Uber wealthy can genuinely escape IHT. I speak as someone who clearly took exams in tax.

OP posts:
LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 22:19

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 21:51

How does a disabled person who isn’t capable of managing their affairs reapply for universal credit when their savings runs dry?

Edited

Their carer or care coordinator assigned social worker would do it.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 21:51

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 21:10

No, it’s what greedy people who think they’re entitled to other people’s money do.

How does a disabled person who isn’t capable of managing their affairs reapply for universal credit when their savings runs dry?

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 21:10

No, it’s what greedy people who think they’re entitled to other people’s money do.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 20:58

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 20:55

It is if she’s trying to arrange her affairs to avoid IHT and keep him eligible for universal credit.

Isn’t that what everyone does??

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 20:55

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 20:34

It’s not is it, OP wanting the best for her DC isn’t a detriment to others.

It is if she’s trying to arrange her affairs to avoid IHT and keep him eligible for universal credit.

LoremIpsumCici · 22/11/2024 20:51

I don’t know if it has been mentioned but you can avoid all IHT by setting up a trust for your disabled son. He sounds like he doesn’t have capacity anyway so you’d appoint trustees to manage his money to provide him with housing and carers. PIP is not means tested and he can still do NI credits only claim via ESA so he will still accrue years towards full state pension.

LordEmsworth · 22/11/2024 20:45

Noras · 22/11/2024 07:13

Clearly you had not read anything that I have written. My other kids have said ‘Good on you and of course DS needs more. ‘ Please don’t make assumptions out of nothings as if colours the thread. I’m really proud of DC as they are very selfless and also self driven.

I have read everything you have written. Including that you have a financial adviser but have not actually asked them to advise you about estate planning.

Someone once called IHT a voluntary tax paid by those who despise their relatives more than they distrust the Inland Revenue. You can do something about it, it's not clear why you ignore EVERYONE pointing this out.

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 20:34

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 19:50

Of course it is but not at the expense of much less wealthy taxpayers.

It’s not is it, OP wanting the best for her DC isn’t a detriment to others.

BIossomtoes · 22/11/2024 19:50

SunQueen24 · 22/11/2024 19:28

It’s ok to want the best for your DC.

Of course it is but not at the expense of much less wealthy taxpayers.