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To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 01:43

@Noras you have been told repeatedly on the other thread about why you are talking utter rubbish about farmers.

I appreciate your situation but this isn't a race to the fucking bottom! You need to get some decent financial advice and be grateful to be able to leave anything to your children! Lots don't have that and even more won't if this ludicrous budget goes through.

Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:39

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:23

Yes it’s all expensive we are still supporting our adult son, Have you asked for an assessment of his social care bill as some of the activities or expenditure could be deducted from the care bill as opposed to the notional sum. We went though it item by item.

I haven’t yet. He’s been CHC funded for the last 7 years so didn’t have to pay a contribution but is now joint funded . I’ve appealed that decision twice and plan to keep on appealing just to pee them off 😂. The financial assessment has only just completed but I’m going to get my ducks in a row and get receipts etc together and ask for that.

Ph3 · 24/11/2024 01:30

OP please don’t listen to those that think that disabled people don’t deserve a life. Of course they do. They deserve as much as everyone else. And don’t let people make you feel bad for claiming any sort of benefits. You have worked and contributed and that’s what our taxes are for. To help those who needed it to live a decent life. I completely understand your frustration. Carers of any kind are underpaid and under appreciated.

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:23

Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:14

My severely disabled son gets around £186 UC per week plus £300 per month mobility and has to pay £156.00 per week towards his care. So we still financially support him even though he doesn’t live at home because he does a lot if activities which he needs. We are looking at a discretionary trust for him through Mencap. I haven’t looked too deeply into IHT side of things but will now!

Yes it’s all expensive we are still supporting our adult son, Have you asked for an assessment of his social care bill as some of the activities or expenditure could be deducted from the care bill as opposed to the notional sum. We went though it item by item.

OP posts:
Noras · 24/11/2024 01:21

eebytat · 23/11/2024 23:28

We have an adopted disabled child and live on £24k and carers allowance/DLA. I have an emergency pot so no UC. I was a high earner and since becoming a carer have earned very little. I feel you are in a much more privileged position than most people and our situation is certainly ‘not fair’ especially as we didn’t even get maternity pay or allowance due to being self employed. Yep, for some inexplicable reason adopted self employed parents are ‘exempt’ from maternity allowance. Feel on balance we have a lot more than you to be aggrieved about but I don’t necessarily feel it’s the state’s responsibility to fund us, we just have to compromise and plan well.

I’m not sure how relevant your comment is. You have carers allowance like me and also I assume that one of you is working. We are no different. My husband and I most certainly don’t claim UC as we have too much income. I don’t begrudge my own situation whatsoever other than I think that carers allowance is rubbish but I’m not alone and most agencies are campaigning on this point. I also think that there should be more social care to help both parents to stay in employment. sadly social care and SEN education is shockingly poor. I believe that productivity would be improved if carers could be supported to work more.

I did get maternity pay but then I did contribute heavily to the state before my son was born. Annoying I have lost my £50 SERPs due or the new state pension.

Im talking about my son as an adult and not my own situation. I’m aggrieved about the suggestion that your adopted disabled son and my own son should always live in abject poverty with no treats eg holidays, some nice clothes when you die as a punishment for being disabled. I’m not talking about the situation of the parents.

OP posts:
Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:14

My severely disabled son gets around £186 UC per week plus £300 per month mobility and has to pay £156.00 per week towards his care. So we still financially support him even though he doesn’t live at home because he does a lot if activities which he needs. We are looking at a discretionary trust for him through Mencap. I haven’t looked too deeply into IHT side of things but will now!

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:06

I have sacrificed my earning potential, my happiness and my future pension to care for my son.

No more. I told social care that I’m working so this is what that means. It means that an agency will provide social care at £25 per hour instead of me at £81 per week carers allowance. I can now save for a pension and also work to get back my self respect that has been lost in the years of caring.

People have hit the nail on the head. Life as a disabled person is a lot more expensive. Just engaging the PA you have expenses as everything is double. Public transport is often inaccessible. As an example of an expense my DS just seems to break things when he tries to do something eg clean.

I realise that people here think that disabled people should live in a box, never have holidays and pretty much have no quality of life as some sort of punishment for daring to be disabled. It’s frankly disturbing and also frankly there is karma so be careful what you wish for.

Disabled people are not those who choose not to work. Many would absolutely love to work but we have such an awful society that does not want to engage with them or they might get extremely low paid work with support. I’m not talking about a whizz with Alzheimer’s who’s someone’s cousin or nephew, I’m talking about my son who will walk down a street gesturing to himself and talking to himself and occasionally might bang his head on a wall. I don’t want to see him dressed in shabby clothes frankly he has enough issues without looking less acceptable in dress. I would like him to look smart with short hair etc

Where should the money come from. So called working people are taxed to the hilt. I recognise that I have to contribute and at my advanced age made numerous application and have secured work. If wages and earning cannot be taxed enough then next it will be capital. So how shall that fall? People who have straightforward inheritances are losing their family homes in the South as the value exceeds the IHT thresholds. They are proportionately poorer as 30 years ago that exact same house would not have been subject to IHT it could have remained the family home. Everyone is being taxed more except the uber rich.

As for farmers,8% of all farmers are responsible for over 50% of all output from farms and own 38% of all farm land in the UK. These are huge mega estates that pay zero tax. The middle earning farmers are described by their own ‘union’ the NFU as life style farmers ie not chasing the profits. They often have other interests eg employment of the farm or their activities eg farm shops, camp sites, bed and breakfast etc. These are not my words.

There are a significant number of farmers - over one third who barely produce any output and I’m nor even sure why they bother. There little bits of land will most likely be exempt from IHt

I’m sure that the wealthy farmers have whipped up a storm with the NFU who under Tory rule were insider lobbyists. They are the ones encouraging the protests and the spread of misinformation, half the farmers on their one portal had no ideas that the IHT could be paid over 10 years interest free for example. Inflation will erode that debt to very little unless you are one of the above huge mega farmers.

Also we have the uber rich corporations. How much tax does Facebook pay and yet how many today have seen adverts on Facebook Instagram and other social media? All that advertising revenue now completely lost to the UK because successive governments lack the desire to tax where the advert is shown. There’s big money in government and watch ex minister secure lucrative positions on the board.

So yes there are decisions to be made.

If asked on a bad day, my son would ask you to allow him to die but that option is not even allowed by the State who just wants to keep the disabled in some form of controlled poverty. Also the people here who think thst my son should never have a holiday or any fun because he is a burden to the state.

In an ideal World they would have their one villages with their own little shops, entertainment and community where they could live safely and those that could work a bit could run the shops, the pub with support. There is so much that should be done and maybe if the Uber rich were taxed it could happen.

When my son was a toddler and I heard the news that he was significantly disabled for a day I wanted to walk with him in front of a bus. I was shivering and scared and a lovely lady from his nursery took me in and gave me a cup of tea and made an emergency call to the GP who tried to reassure me that things would not necessarily be that bad.

But they are that bad because the people here don’t want the disabled to have decent lives. They don’t want the disabled to have a holiday, a meal out or whatever, they want them incarcerated in some rubbish hole not costing much until they die. Well great but the same might come back to you when you get dementia and your funds run out - hopefully you will go to some third rate hell hole of a care home. The reality is that the wealthier of the OAP’s get to stay in the nicer care homes because they paid for a while so the state allows them to remain. How many of you will give away money to your kids to avoid care home fees. How many of you will set up some sort of trust or ensure at the house is held as tenants in common to avoid care home fees. Probably the same people who begrudge a disabled person a holiday but want the state to pay for their care when older. millions signed the various campaigns in papers like the Daily Mail for free social care for the elderly!

They are the ones who campaigned to ask the state not to take their houses when they finally need care. However at least that care is just for the last few years and not a lifetime of misery and dependancy with abject poverty, At least they have had some sort of decent life before dementia or Parkinson’s struck,

When I thought about that bus as it approached me all I could think of was “ We are the bad one”. I felt rubbish for having a rubbish son who would drag down the family.

The biggest irony is that the lovely lady who rescued me, her husband died under a bus a few years later and she herself died of cancer. So trust me all the thoughts I had that day have been justified because people are frankly despicable and nasty until it happens to them, luckily I met an angel that day. Be warned the likelihood is you will need care one day and it will cost £80,000 per annum and many of you ( the same ones who begrudged a disabled person a holiday) would seek advice to for instance shield assets from social services eg with some form of trust or by severing a joint tenancy or by making life time gifts to adult kids. That’s why I think there is so much hypocrisy.

OP posts:
eebytat · 23/11/2024 23:28

We have an adopted disabled child and live on £24k and carers allowance/DLA. I have an emergency pot so no UC. I was a high earner and since becoming a carer have earned very little. I feel you are in a much more privileged position than most people and our situation is certainly ‘not fair’ especially as we didn’t even get maternity pay or allowance due to being self employed. Yep, for some inexplicable reason adopted self employed parents are ‘exempt’ from maternity allowance. Feel on balance we have a lot more than you to be aggrieved about but I don’t necessarily feel it’s the state’s responsibility to fund us, we just have to compromise and plan well.

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 22:37

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 22:27

Fair enough. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about something without suggesting an alternative.

How is is it disingenuous? I have provided an opinion and elaborated on why I thought it. I didn’t do so in a backhanded way, or trying to confuse the subject. I simply stated my opinion. Which is just that my opinion. I wasn’t even complaining I understood why the OP didn’t think it fair specifically under her circumstances. Not sure where this was disingenuous but again you are entitled to your opinion.

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 22:27

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 22:25

And as I have said this is an outdated law that was created to prevent the aristocracy to continue to hold on to the land. It’s not my job to come up with solutions. That’s the job of politicians and leaders - that’s what your taxes pays - solutions for the cost of living. What I do know is many other countries (such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore) don’t have this tax and manage. There are many reforms required in the UK tax system in my opinion - this being one of them.

Edited

Fair enough. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about something without suggesting an alternative.

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 22:26

Memyselfmilly · 23/11/2024 22:03

So I think it’s like this. Mid sized farms make about 1% profit. So farm worth £1.1milliob So yearly it’s 11,000 profit. Effectively wages for farmer and family working on it. therefore asset rich cash poor. The profits isn’t enough to save any.

IHT due would be 200k. Obviously if you are only making 11k a year you can’t pay that - now or over 10 years. If you make 11 k but owe 20k a year….

you would need to sel enough of the farm to pay the bill. Then if you were only making 11k a year - a smaller farm isn’t going to make squat so you have to sell everything. Farm is gone. A way of life dies. Country side dies.

on the flip side if a parent dies and leaves you 1 million. You will pay your IHT and be considerably more well off.

something like that… I think…

Yes, although if a farm is owned by a married couple their family get a £3 million allowance.

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 22:25

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 21:44

As others have said, it's mostly due to unearned property price inflation. And regardless of that we need to raise revenue. What do you propose we tax or cut to compensate if you feel it's unfair?

And as I have said this is an outdated law that was created to prevent the aristocracy to continue to hold on to the land. It’s not my job to come up with solutions. That’s the job of politicians and leaders - that’s what your taxes pays - solutions for the cost of living. What I do know is many other countries (such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore) don’t have this tax and manage. There are many reforms required in the UK tax system in my opinion - this being one of them.

AreYouBrandNew · 23/11/2024 22:12

is he going to outlive both parents by 50 years?

Memyselfmilly · 23/11/2024 22:03

Pupinskipops · 23/11/2024 19:45

Help me understand this argument about farmers being asset rich and cash poor. IHT isn't due until they sell the richness of their assets, so how is it relevant that they're cash poor if no IHT is due from that cash?

So I think it’s like this. Mid sized farms make about 1% profit. So farm worth £1.1milliob So yearly it’s 11,000 profit. Effectively wages for farmer and family working on it. therefore asset rich cash poor. The profits isn’t enough to save any.

IHT due would be 200k. Obviously if you are only making 11k a year you can’t pay that - now or over 10 years. If you make 11 k but owe 20k a year….

you would need to sel enough of the farm to pay the bill. Then if you were only making 11k a year - a smaller farm isn’t going to make squat so you have to sell everything. Farm is gone. A way of life dies. Country side dies.

on the flip side if a parent dies and leaves you 1 million. You will pay your IHT and be considerably more well off.

something like that… I think…

user8634216758 · 23/11/2024 21:56

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 19:48

IHT is due within six months of death unless you’re a farmer when it can be paid over ten years.

But how do you pay it without selling land, which will make your farm smaller and in most cases unviable.
Farmers may have millions in assets, but make very small profits if any. There is no cash sitting about to pay the inheritance tax…so land will be sold. To carbon offsetting, green washing, overseas investors, maybe even the government itself if you can’t pay the bill.

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 21:44

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:50

So you think it’s fair people being taxed effectively twice?

As others have said, it's mostly due to unearned property price inflation. And regardless of that we need to raise revenue. What do you propose we tax or cut to compensate if you feel it's unfair?

Zapx · 23/11/2024 21:20

ButterCrackers · 23/11/2024 21:02

It should be equal rules for all

Umm… care to expand?

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 21:07

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 20:54

It’s not double taxation. The vast majority of IHT liability is because of property inflation, if your house is worth ££££ more than you paid for it that money has never been taxed.

The vast majority sure but not all. Even so - inheritance tax was created so the aristocracy couldn’t pass on their land easily and most of the time had to break up their estate to pay the tax. Which I understand but is now outdated. If people have worked to accumulate some money to leave to their 2.5 kids so they can afford a property on their own there should be no tax on this. Add this to having a disabled child that needs more support no wonder the OP worries and doesn’t think it fair. I would too. Whilst I understand the argument it’s never been taxed in practice the disparity between housing prices and income have drastically increased and this would be a way to re balance that for the next generation.

ButterCrackers · 23/11/2024 21:02

It should be equal rules for all

BIossomtoes · 23/11/2024 20:54

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:50

So you think it’s fair people being taxed effectively twice?

It’s not double taxation. The vast majority of IHT liability is because of property inflation, if your house is worth ££££ more than you paid for it that money has never been taxed.

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:50

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 20:47

OK but what/who should we tax instead to make up the shortfall? Or rather what should we cut?

So you think it’s fair people being taxed effectively twice?

Zapx · 23/11/2024 20:49

Some of the replies on here clearly have absolutely no idea how expensive being disabled can be! £1 million sounds great, but if you are paying for care that can be gone in a jiffy. And if the OP is catering for her son, she WILL be saving the state money.

For everyone talking about life insurance- well yes! But if the OP plans on living into her 70s then that isn’t going to apply, obviously! OP I am the sibling in your scenario. At present I stand to inherit substantially, and will then immediately have my sibling live with me. I will need to give up working. My sibling can never work, and never have any money to their name due to substantial vulnerabilities.

One thing that we didn’t cater enough for is my parent’s care costs. This is looking like it will be substantial and they will be fully liable for it (for now). If your child lives with you, one way of protecting that money, is to have it in your property, as when calculating care costs the house is discarded if still required by a dependent (which your son would be).

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 20:47

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:23

The reality is there should be no inheritance tax. I cannot comprehend this at all.

OK but what/who should we tax instead to make up the shortfall? Or rather what should we cut?

Fairydust6 · 23/11/2024 20:28

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:23

The reality is there should be no inheritance tax. I cannot comprehend this at all.