Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Arran2024 · 26/11/2024 14:59

Noras · 26/11/2024 13:34

Thank you and I have done that. I remain worried as I suspect that the criteria for the trust will be amended as will pip etc so I’m going to have to keep monitoring the situation as I get older.

I wish that o could just give it all to a sibling of his bit then it puts a lot of faith not only in them but all’s their spouses etc.

I have a daughter with a mld so I do understand. I wouldn't worry too much about the future. You can't control it. You might have to go into a home and sell up and there might be nothing to leave anyway. My daughter doesn't particularly need money anyway. Her sister, who needs to buy a place with her boyfriend in sw London, does!

StandingSideBySide · 26/11/2024 14:25

SunQueen24 · 26/11/2024 14:18

But the residents of Guernsey are not supported in the same way. So the lower earners are hit harder. I understand your point but Guernsey is not a good example.

They are supported with a very similar benefits system to the UK and since 2003 a health insurance system too.
The support actually far exceeds the UK with all elderly care funded through their health system, no one has to sell their home to pay that.
The difference is it’s a wealthier country overall because wealthier people live and pay their taxes there. In some cases because wealth has been passed on, grown and people are encouraged through an equal tax system to climb the ladder without losing out once you pass a certain tax bracket.

SunQueen24 · 26/11/2024 14:18

StandingSideBySide · 26/11/2024 14:15

The point is
If a country makes itself more desirable for the wealthy to reside in then they stay, pay more in taxes ( as high earners don’t receive benefits ) and overall benefit the system. Thus there is more in the pot to support lower earners and infrastructure.

But the residents of Guernsey are not supported in the same way. So the lower earners are hit harder. I understand your point but Guernsey is not a good example.

StandingSideBySide · 26/11/2024 14:15

SunQueen24 · 26/11/2024 14:03

Well it is relevant, as it’s a different system, one to encourage the wealthy to reside there, thereby increasing the tax burden on each resident and making more revenue amongst a lower population.

The UK has less wealth spread between more people and has difference services to fund (health and social care not least). So it’s a comparison of apples and oranges. The two taxation policies have different goals.

The point is
If a country makes itself more desirable for the wealthy to reside in then they stay, pay more in taxes ( as high earners don’t receive benefits ) and overall benefit the system. Thus there is more in the pot to support lower earners and infrastructure.

SunQueen24 · 26/11/2024 14:03

StandingSideBySide · 26/11/2024 13:44

I don’t see how that’s relevant to my post highlighting the long term effects of removing certain taxes.

Well it is relevant, as it’s a different system, one to encourage the wealthy to reside there, thereby increasing the tax burden on each resident and making more revenue amongst a lower population.

The UK has less wealth spread between more people and has difference services to fund (health and social care not least). So it’s a comparison of apples and oranges. The two taxation policies have different goals.

StandingSideBySide · 26/11/2024 13:44

Noras · 26/11/2024 13:35

Guernsey does not have the same outgoings as the UK eg in defence or social care spending and no NHS

I don’t see how that’s relevant to my post highlighting the long term effects of removing certain taxes.

Noras · 26/11/2024 13:35

StandingSideBySide · 25/11/2024 12:41

Removing a tax only lowers tax income in one sense.
What its does in the long term is increase wealth and encourages wealthier people to stay or even move to your country.
Guernsey has a one off income tax of 20% for everyone with a £13k allowance.

There is no increase for those who earn more thus people do not find themselves on the margins of a higher tax rate and worse off.

They also have no capital gains tax and no inheritance tax.

Guernsey does not have the same outgoings as the UK eg in defence or social care spending and no NHS

OP posts:
Noras · 26/11/2024 13:34

Arran2024 · 26/11/2024 11:27

Sorry I haven't read the thread so sorry if this has been covered already, but you need to set up a trust for his inheritance. He can then ask the trustees for money for eg a holiday. But he mustn't inherit directly or it will affect his benefits, and he will have to self fund until the money runs out. Contact Mencap for a copy of their wills and trusts pack.

Thank you and I have done that. I remain worried as I suspect that the criteria for the trust will be amended as will pip etc so I’m going to have to keep monitoring the situation as I get older.

I wish that o could just give it all to a sibling of his bit then it puts a lot of faith not only in them but all’s their spouses etc.

OP posts:
Arran2024 · 26/11/2024 11:27

Sorry I haven't read the thread so sorry if this has been covered already, but you need to set up a trust for his inheritance. He can then ask the trustees for money for eg a holiday. But he mustn't inherit directly or it will affect his benefits, and he will have to self fund until the money runs out. Contact Mencap for a copy of their wills and trusts pack.

StandingSideBySide · 25/11/2024 12:41

SunQueen24 · 24/11/2024 10:45

It doesn’t take a mathematician to realise that when you remove one revenue source it will leave a deficit. That deficit has to come from somewhere. It won’t be unicorn poo balancing the books.

Edited

Removing a tax only lowers tax income in one sense.
What its does in the long term is increase wealth and encourages wealthier people to stay or even move to your country.
Guernsey has a one off income tax of 20% for everyone with a £13k allowance.

There is no increase for those who earn more thus people do not find themselves on the margins of a higher tax rate and worse off.

They also have no capital gains tax and no inheritance tax.

notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 19:28

Memyselfmilly · 24/11/2024 18:04

So below is from the times highlighting the affect on a medium sized family sized farm that will likely be forced to shut down. Income average is £123,000 - although some years much lower - which is wages for 3 people and what is required for reinvestment in the farm.

hardly a mega farm…

That also assumes you actually get the value of the crop in the ground too.

What you get for your harvest isn't determined until it's harvested and back dry in the shed.

You have a bad harvest and suddenly you have a huge cash flow issue to buy new seed. Tractor repairs can cost tens of thousands of pounds.

notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 19:23

notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 19:21

@Noras it really doesn't! If anything it proves the exact opposite!
If for every million pounds over threshold it's £200k in tax.
So for easy numbers to 'only' have 500 farms affected that would mean that the average value of those farms was at least 8 million.

There is a heck of a lot of farms which would be valued between 3 and 8 million! I'd go as far as to say that the majority of farms would fall into that bracket.

So no not small numbers at all!

  • majority of small farms
notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 19:21

@Noras it really doesn't! If anything it proves the exact opposite!
If for every million pounds over threshold it's £200k in tax.
So for easy numbers to 'only' have 500 farms affected that would mean that the average value of those farms was at least 8 million.

There is a heck of a lot of farms which would be valued between 3 and 8 million! I'd go as far as to say that the majority of farms would fall into that bracket.

So no not small numbers at all!

Memyselfmilly · 24/11/2024 18:04

So below is from the times highlighting the affect on a medium sized family sized farm that will likely be forced to shut down. Income average is £123,000 - although some years much lower - which is wages for 3 people and what is required for reinvestment in the farm.

hardly a mega farm…

To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT
ThinWomansBrain · 24/11/2024 17:51

"However then you will loose the main residence relief which increases the allowance to 1 million for a couple to include the additional £150,000 main property relief."

I think there's a way of carrying forward/protecting main residence relief if you downsize - from a radio piece I heard a week or so ago.
If your so concerned about not paying IHT on your millions, pay for a financial advisor.

Noras · 24/11/2024 17:47

notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 17:40

@Noras The estimated income from the inheritance tax change is approximately 500million per year

We are currently giving over 535million to develop agriculture in other countries. The largest amount going to Brazil which is the 11th largest economy in the world.

So on the one hand out government is destroying British agriculture whist giving handouts to foreign agriculture.

So NONE of the income from this policy change is going into the Uk economy!!!

Which proves how few farms will be affected. It’s going to tax the megafarms or very large farms with turnover in excess of £250,000 to unlimited.

OP posts:
notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 17:40

Noras · 24/11/2024 10:48

Income tax is at the highest it has ever been since the 1970s when people were leaving the country on their droves.

Capital gains tax is higher than since the 1970s as there is no allowance made for inflation or indexation relief.

Inheritance tax was bringing in virtually nothing and not is what about several billion due to fiscal drag on £350,000 being unaltered. People are selling off their parents main home to pay it ( or using really expensive all life insurance that you are forced to pay until death to lose all the premiums so end up wishing to die earlier).

For higher tax payers they are paying more than on places like France and getting poorer services eg health care and pensions ( which are linked to earnings in France and also are on household income not individual).

We are going under unless we get productivity up.

Frankly they need to get people back working eg like me and I’m happy to do that but ironically it will cost the state more for DS social care. There is no net gain.

So what can be done? So when the farmers protest who do they want to take away from. And yes even the cost of sheltered accommodation has increased above the rise in benefits which are linked to CPI not RPI index whereas pensions are shielded due to triple lock. So even the disabled are worse off. So who has to pay?

@Noras The estimated income from the inheritance tax change is approximately 500million per year

We are currently giving over 535million to develop agriculture in other countries. The largest amount going to Brazil which is the 11th largest economy in the world.

So on the one hand out government is destroying British agriculture whist giving handouts to foreign agriculture.

So NONE of the income from this policy change is going into the Uk economy!!!

Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 17:39

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Noras · 24/11/2024 13:47

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Yes so he has to access drips and no more than say £4000 at a time etc

OP posts:
Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 12:23

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 12:21

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Ariela · 24/11/2024 11:55

I think you need speak to someone qualified to advise you on the best way to set up your son's inheritance, eg to put the money in trust for him as that won't count as 'his savings', meaning he'll be entitled to full benefits and thus will have the best of both worlds - full government support plus a trust fund he can use for extras - care or holidays or whatever he needs.

Ph3 · 24/11/2024 11:38

Anothercoffeeafter3 · 24/11/2024 11:26

Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's not right. I would like to see a smaller state with copay e.g you have a child in school add 2% to your tax bracket per child, income protection being the normal not benefits, on benefits get out and clean the streets (we litter pick our village the council doesn't).

I like this idea. So sort of you pay for what you have in a way. I think that makes sense. It’s fair as you take responsibility for your own.

Ph3 · 24/11/2024 11:32

SunQueen24 · 24/11/2024 11:28

You said abolishing one tax doesn’t lead to more tax in another area - but the fact remains that will equal a deficit which will need to be recovered elsewhere.

No I said that abolishing inheritance tax doesn’t automatically lead to income tax being increased - that’s a choice the government would make. There are others. Such as an overhaul of the NHS and the benefit system - in my opinion neither should go on as they are as it’s not sustainable

mumtotwo11 · 24/11/2024 11:31

I think you'd need to leave it in a "trust" for him. - speak to a financial planner/solicitor x