Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Problematic employee

63 replies

somenonsense · 21/11/2024 23:25

I am a manager of 10 people.

One employee takes up most of my time. She is emotionally immature and very entitled, despite being in her late 30s.

She was in charge of choosing her own workload, but ended up working extra hours and complained until HR agreed to extend her contract to full time pay over 4 long days. She is meant to work 8-6:30 every day.

She is meant to work 60% in the office, she comes in maybe once a month- always some excuse why she can't come in. "Headache" "repairman coming" "period pain" "child sick". She is 90% WFH.

She does however love to travel for conferences and events. She is the first to put her hand up for that and argues fiercely when it comes to say it's someone else's turn.

I could go on.

Anyway, my issue. I've managed her for three years. Every Ramadan she WFH, of course. But she gets fuck all done. She logs off by mid afternoon to start cooking a feast for her extended family. She is unproductive when she is online. She spends meetings complaining about how hungry she is, and throws a sulk if the team goes to lunch. She is always invited, but sits there with a face like a slapped arse and complains about how hungry she is.

She is not devout in any other way that I can see, beyond observing Ramadan. She drinks a lot etc.

This year I want to get ahead of it, and ask her to adjust her hours or take leave over Ramadan. I think she is taking the absolute piss getting paid full time pay while producing a few hours worth of work.

AIBU? Or racist? Do I need to accommodate this?

I feel like if she was less of a pain in the arse in general I would let it slide more, but I've had it and she needs some boundaries.

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 11:46

MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 11:32

Sounds like the entire company is a mess, and she's certainly found the right place if what she wants is a job where she can take the piss.

Absolutely. I'm ready to be part of the solution but it's going to be an absolute shitshow getting there

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 11:45

TizerorFizz · 22/11/2024 11:30

Does your company not do performance management? Or keep a log of poor attendance and timekeeping? Not to mention reviewing productivity and performance of the section? This is partly done to ensure all colleagues are supported and not just one! What does everyone else think? I’m amazed they haven’t complained to you.

Talk to HR immediately. Keep recorded of performance shortcomings and evidence of her contract being broken. You won’t come out of this well. Who does your performance review? Are you public sector workers?

No but she came from the public sector and keeps threatening to return to it. I wish she would.

OP posts:
MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 11:32

Sounds like the entire company is a mess, and she's certainly found the right place if what she wants is a job where she can take the piss.

TizerorFizz · 22/11/2024 11:30

Does your company not do performance management? Or keep a log of poor attendance and timekeeping? Not to mention reviewing productivity and performance of the section? This is partly done to ensure all colleagues are supported and not just one! What does everyone else think? I’m amazed they haven’t complained to you.

Talk to HR immediately. Keep recorded of performance shortcomings and evidence of her contract being broken. You won’t come out of this well. Who does your performance review? Are you public sector workers?

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 11:23

She recently had a back injury (or so she said) and told me she was taking four weeks leave.

She contacted HR and told them she was going to take only half the time as leave- because she would be available for phone calls.

She did not clear it with me, but gave HR the impression it was all settled and approved.

Almost no one called her. There was no need. On one of the days she was 'working a half day' literally everyone was out of the office.

I realised halfway through the third week and HR were like "oh it's nearly the end of the period anyway. Not worth raising it with her"

I emailed her asking for set hours she would be working, and she responded that she wanted to be "available the whole day, so she could help those who needed her" and that sitting at a computer needlessly would harm her back.

HR were useless.

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 11:18

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 22/11/2024 09:44

If any other employee said 'I've terrible period pain, is it ok if I work from home today?' I'd say 'no problem' that's reasonable.

It's not reasonable. If they're due in the office that day and can't come in, that's what their sick leave is for.

To be honest, you should be asking all these questions to your manager, not a parenting website.

Or recognise that you've let things slide for so long into this mess, there's no point in changing it until you've had your training and become a competent manager.

When is your training booked for?

My manager is worse than me. Absolutely hopeless. I can never get even five minutes of his time.

I am at least trying to do a good job.

I recently said no to a conference she wanted to attend- for the first time. She sent me three emails arguing about why she should go, copying my manager in because she thought it would pressure me.

I'll leave Ramadan alone. I suppose it was just a clear example of her deciding her own work pattern, when normally it's an ad hoc decision.

OP posts:
ThatsNotMyTeen · 22/11/2024 11:15

And don’t back down if she turns on the waterworks or complains about bullying. It is not bullying to speak to a workshy employee about their performance. Woman up OP.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 22/11/2024 11:12

I wouldn’t start on Ramadan but start issuing instructions that she needs to come into the office and follow through with discipline if she doesn’t.

If she is sick or her child is then it needs to be taken as unpaid leave or sick leave.

She’s only taking the piss because you’ve let her.

ChateauMargaux · 22/11/2024 11:09

Sarah.. let's review your flexible working agreement.. we have an appointment in person next week with HR to discuss this.

You are contracted to work 9 -18.30.. and 10 days per month in the office. While working from home, while it is OK to schedule household tasks on those days, you are still required to work your hours.

I can see that in the past three months, you have worked only 5 days in the office. For the next three months, I will be reviewing this, and if you are not meeting your contractual requirements, your right to work from home will be reviewed (check with HR how they would like.you to do this and ask for their support).

I have been back over our communications and see that you often have reasons for working from home, in future, you will have to swap your other days to compensate, plan around your office days or take annual or sick leave if you cannot make it in to the office.

I would also like to support you better during your religious observations of Ramadam (again ask HR). We understand that it is difficult to work at full capacity during this time and invite you to propose how we can make reasonable adjustments for you in this time, while respecting your contractual obligations towards your employment.

Ask HR what is reasonable and what can be expected.

Lean on HR, invite them to come up with solutions and to be part of the discussions..

TSnewbie · 22/11/2024 10:49

I think you can implement a number of things that will allow you to at least monitor the situation better and to build up a file that you can bring to HR in case still needed.
Make sure that her tasks are clear and give them in writing with a deadline. This way you can follow up easier if she does not achieve her targets.
Tell (where appropriate) all your staff that you will monitor the WFH situation a bit better - in many firms there is a push to have people return to the office more as productivity can be far better monitored and it is also much better for staff engagement. A very easy rule is that if ppl use an excuse to stay at home one day, they'll have to make up by coming to the office another day that week. If you bring this as a general rule, she won't feel singled out and it is clear that it is of general application.
For the Ramadan period - i would also not make a larger issue of this. If she's not performing the assigned work for this period, make sure that she herself is forced to admit it and leave a paper trail. For instance, send her an email near the end of her working day asking whether she was able to complete task a/b/c.

Miley1967 · 22/11/2024 10:39

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 10:00

You should have managed her out by now
Set her performance target
Set minimum times she HAS to be in the office
You know what you have to do - you are a manager. But it appears you do not seem to be prepared to manage her because you can foresee the issues - you know what these are and you have alluded to them. I suspect you think that if you try to manage her effectively, she will 'play the race card' or something similar and you don't want to deal with it.
Either step up and manage her appropriately, or get in touch with HR and ask them to deal with her. Otherwise, the rest of your team is going to become very pissed off both with her and you.

Exactly this. You are the manager and if she's not doing her job or putting in the hours then you put her on a performance improvement plan. There's too many poor managers around. My colleague barely puts in any hours, takes a 1.5 hour lunchbreak every when it's meant to be half an hour, does nothing to learn new skills or keep updated etc yet my manager does nothing, even passed her for probation when she was like this form the start. It's beyond belief what some employees get away with.

Zetter · 22/11/2024 10:34

As a manager who has had a couple of challenging staff over the years including a couple of managers who I put on this (and believe me I am pretty easy going compared to some but people do take the Michael) I would look at the following.

I would definitely avoid like the plague doing anything about religious holidays and allowing reasonable adjustments. You are heading for a big grievance there and possibly even bigger issues. This has been allowed to happen previously and suddenly turning it around now would be see as discriminatory especially if other staff in the business get allowances for Ramadan.

If you are unhappy with the performance of the individual kick off with an informal performance plan with targets and make them SMART targets you can measure. This should be fairly easy by the sounds of it as it can be sickness, timekeeping, productivity etc.
Have regular review over the period its running say 1-2 months i.e. weekly.
If performance does not improve and agreed targets are not being hit then you can move onto an official performance plan with penalties for not improving such as staged warnings.
Generally either then people buck up (generally the best outcome) or it goes to then either leaving/ getting dismissed.

Its not fun to do and you have to stay the course if you want improvement. The alternative is to let it continue to the slide but this is awfully corrosive to the rest of the team generally if they see someone essentially getting away with stuff and either go the same way or lose confidence in you as a manager.

MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 10:04

In fact I would bet that your team are thoroughly pissed off, have watched this go on for three years, and are either leaving or looking to.

Unfairness is the worst thing you can bring into a team. She sounds horribly selfish, and you sound scared of her.

I'd be out of there like a shot. Letting her go to conferences while she can't get to the office because of period pain? C'mon mate.

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 10:00

You should have managed her out by now
Set her performance target
Set minimum times she HAS to be in the office
You know what you have to do - you are a manager. But it appears you do not seem to be prepared to manage her because you can foresee the issues - you know what these are and you have alluded to them. I suspect you think that if you try to manage her effectively, she will 'play the race card' or something similar and you don't want to deal with it.
Either step up and manage her appropriately, or get in touch with HR and ask them to deal with her. Otherwise, the rest of your team is going to become very pissed off both with her and you.

JurassicPark4Eva · 22/11/2024 09:50

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 09:36

How do you hold someone accountable when they always have an excuse?

Because excuses aren't always acceptable for piss poor performance.

She doesn't get to go to conferences as a right, they are a privilege and I'd be stopping that immediately - "thanks for offering Jane, but I'm conscious you've not been well recently / have lots of things on your plate with sick child and so I'm not going to allow you to do extra hours for now".

"Sorry to hear you have a headache so want to WFH, which days are you going to do in the office to make up for it?"

"Sorry toddler is sick, am I booking you off as unpaid parental leave / carers leave or annual leave?"

"Jane, why did you log off at lunchtime yesterday? Oh you're prepping for breaking your fast? When are you making up the hours you didn't work?"

And if she fails to make up those things you hold her to account. Every. Single. Time.

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 22/11/2024 09:44

If any other employee said 'I've terrible period pain, is it ok if I work from home today?' I'd say 'no problem' that's reasonable.

It's not reasonable. If they're due in the office that day and can't come in, that's what their sick leave is for.

To be honest, you should be asking all these questions to your manager, not a parenting website.

Or recognise that you've let things slide for so long into this mess, there's no point in changing it until you've had your training and become a competent manager.

When is your training booked for?

MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 09:44

It sounds to me like you need support as her manager @somenonsense - someone higher up or in HR needs to be made aware and advise you through the process. This is part of being a leader and it doesn't sound like you know how to approach it, and they need to help you with your skills gap.

MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 09:43

Because they have actual tangible responsibilities surely? And a contract?

If they are not adhering to those, you either get them to start or issue warnings if they don't, which will eventually result in dismissal if she digs her heels in.

For the love of god though, don't touch Ramadan.

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 09:36

Guest100 · 22/11/2024 01:47

Talk to HR and start hold her accountable. Don’t make it about Ramadan. She either does her job or is fired.

How do you hold someone accountable when they always have an excuse?

OP posts:
Guest100 · 22/11/2024 01:47

Talk to HR and start hold her accountable. Don’t make it about Ramadan. She either does her job or is fired.

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:39

ilovesooty · 21/11/2024 23:35

How do you know how much she drinks?

Because we have work functions where she gets incredibly drunk.

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:38

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 21/11/2024 23:58

How the hell have you not dealt with any of this in three whole years?!

That's what I'd like to know.

This woman isn't the only employee who needs to be taken to task.

To be honest it's because she literally cries and accuses people of bullying her a lot.

I've had a lot going on personally the last few years with miscarriages and other things and it's always been easier to let things slide. If any other employee said 'I've terrible period pain, is it ok if I work from home today?' I'd say 'no problem' that's reasonable.

But she takes that and runs with it to staying home every time she has her period without asking.

I just haven't had the bandwidth to deal with her. I also like having flexibility available to the rest of the team when they need it, so I've been reluctant to put in hard rules either.

She's the only one taking the piss

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:35

I agree I've been an ineffective manager. 100%

I've signed up for executive coaching.

The problem is putting these boundaries in now, when she has established a pattern of behaving like this and feel entitled to the 'flexibility'

OP posts:
SapphOhNo · 22/11/2024 00:08

Yeah I think you come across as an ineffective manager here. She's done this for so long as you haven't dealt with it.

Invisimamma · 22/11/2024 00:03

Don't make this about Ramadan, it's months away anyway.

Make her objectives really clear, what she needs to achieve and by when. Put in some review points, address it if she's not meet expectations. If she's not working her hours address that too, before Ramadan!

This will be affecting morale in the rest of your team if they're feeling like they're carrying her or that she's getting away with poor performance while they put the effort in.