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Should we be worried about war

952 replies

Seasidesand76 · 19/11/2024 11:45

Seen a lot in the news about Ukraine using USA missiles against Russia. I've been thinking more along the lines that it won't start a WW3 and will resolve at some point without the UK getting directly involved in war. But there seems to be more and more tension and threats of an all out war recently.

Should we be worried about WW3? I haven't been prepping or anything but does make me wonder if I should start getting a few days worth of food in case. At the same time I don't want to go down the prepper hole and start getting over the top.

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DogInATent · 23/11/2024 20:24

FindingMeno · 23/11/2024 19:05

Does anyone find the bomb threats/ controlled explosions over the last few days, with no ongoing discussion afterwards on the news as to who was behind them, a little concerning?
Or does this sort of thing happen all the time and the media is making a big thing out of it?

No.
The people that "find things concerning" are generally those that live under a blanket for most of their lives and only pay too little attention too late when it's fashionable to be concerned, although they never manage to find it fashionable to be informed.

deeperdrivens · 23/11/2024 19:31

MissConductUS · 22/11/2024 18:17

I asked directly because you completely ignored the point of my earlier post.

Graham's point was that it would hurt the world's economy if China and Russia had a near monopoly on the minerals in the long run. This is in no way "pushing for war". How could the US push for a war that was started by Russia? Do you think that self defense on the part of the Ukrainians or the act of providing assistance to them is somehow an act of aggression? Is the UK, Poland, or Germany pushing for war by doing so?

The minerals in Ukraine are not needed to save the world economy - nor as you put it either. But if you think that is what the senator meant, are you saying that he supports Ukrainians dying and their land being destroyed just so that the west has a monopoly on the minerals? That is appalling, morally and otherwise.

Economic power interests were key factors in decison making in ww 1 and ww2, and numerous other conflicts, this is nothing new. But no, the minerals are not needed to save the world economy.

notimagain · 23/11/2024 19:20

FindingMeno · 23/11/2024 19:05

Does anyone find the bomb threats/ controlled explosions over the last few days, with no ongoing discussion afterwards on the news as to who was behind them, a little concerning?
Or does this sort of thing happen all the time and the media is making a big thing out of it?

Happens on and off on a regular basis, has done for years e.g just recently:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/manchester-airport-bomb-threat-emirates-b2432233.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/east-croydon-station-bomb-suspicious-package-metropolitan-police-b1183293.html

We’re probably not going to get a detailed explanation from the authorities about what goes on with a lot of these incidents since doing so may give away details such as (in the case of airports) what can be detected by screening and what the response might be if item x is found verses item y being found.

Worth being aware though that in the Gatwick case yesterday the two individuals who in some way triggered that alert were eventually allowed to continue on their travels.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 23/11/2024 19:11

MagicFox · 22/11/2024 09:22

Remember too that this decision had been triggered by Putin's escalation: he has sent 10,000 North Koreans into Ukraine with all of the implications that has for the fracturing international isolation of NK and the globalising nature of this war. Do you think not responding to this would be a positive thing? Should everybody let Putin shit all over international law and do whatever the hell he wants to a sovereign country, to free peoples, to humanity? What are the longer term implications of that?

Edited

Well said, spot on.
Putin has put boots on the ground from another country - imagine if a NATO country did decide to fight alongside Ukraine, what response would Putin have to that? Allowing Ukraine to strike Russian and NK troops/military targets in a confined area of russia is a fairly mild response to the Kremlin's blatant escalation.

FindingMeno · 23/11/2024 19:05

Does anyone find the bomb threats/ controlled explosions over the last few days, with no ongoing discussion afterwards on the news as to who was behind them, a little concerning?
Or does this sort of thing happen all the time and the media is making a big thing out of it?

WarProf · 23/11/2024 19:04

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 18:50

I have no allegiancies or history or family connections but really I don't think those young kids are choosing to go to Ukraine and be killed.

Mostly they aren't young kids and yes, they are choosing to go. Conscripts (aged 18-30) aren't supposed to be sent to Ukraine - though of course many of them are pressured or tricked into signing contracts and then sent. Contract soldiers are mostly older - sometimes a lot older. A report last month found that half of the contract soldiers from Moscow are now at least 45; some of them are in their 60s: The Russian army is increasingly relying on older recruits — but frontline soldiers say ‘grandpas’ aren’t fit for war — Meduza

The Russian army is increasingly relying on older recruits — but frontline soldiers say ‘grandpas’ aren’t fit for war — Meduza

As the war in Ukraine drags far into its third year, the ranks of the Russian army are increasingly filled with older fighters, according to a new report from Verstka. Government and military sources report a steady rise in the number of Russian contra...

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/10/10/the-russian-army-is-increasingly-relying-on-older-recruits-but-frontline-soldiers-say-grandpas-aren-t-fit-for-war

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 18:50

WarProf · 23/11/2024 16:20

It is, though what's happening to the Russians who choose to go to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians isn't really as sad as what's happening to the Ukrainians who've done nothing more than exist in their own homes and are being raped, tortured, and murdered for it.

I have no allegiancies or history or family connections but really I don't think those young kids are choosing to go to Ukraine and be killed.

1dayatatime · 23/11/2024 17:42

@WarProf

I completely agree that Europe isn't spending nearly as much as it should on defence, but it is at least mostly moving in the right direction, and I expect that to continue. 75% of members are spending at or above the 2% of GDP guideline. That's a huge shift from 5 years ago."

Whilst I agree it's a step in the right direction, it really is too little too late. And certainly too late to make any difference on the outcome of the Ukrainian conflict in 2025.

These countries need to have been spending 3% or more for the last 20 years to make any real impact.

MagicFox · 23/11/2024 17:33

Yes Crapita!

notimagain · 23/11/2024 17:33

@MagicFox

My understanding is that lots want to join but recruitment is such a mess that they drop out

UK? Yep, apparently recruiting now done by Capita rather than directly by HM Forces/MOD and many reports circulating that it’s not going at all well for quite some time now,

committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/98547/army-and-capita-must-share-blame-for-soldier-recruitment-failures/

MagicFox · 23/11/2024 17:26

Alexandra2001 · 23/11/2024 17:11

I do not believe europe and or Nato has ever had a standard MBT, just as they don't all use the same rifles or artillery, having standardlised ammo is essential though, the uk needs to get on with this.

Building a new MBT would take many years and eat up budgets that would be better spent on more effective weapons that we already have, Putin is here and now, not in 10 years time.

Imho Europe needs to rapidly increase production of shells, missiles, air defence systems, planes/pilots & of course somehow, this is probably extremely difficult, get people to join the armed forces.

My understanding is that lots want to join but recruitment is such a mess that they drop out

Alexandra2001 · 23/11/2024 17:11

I do not believe europe and or Nato has ever had a standard MBT, just as they don't all use the same rifles or artillery, having standardlised ammo is essential though, the uk needs to get on with this.

Building a new MBT would take many years and eat up budgets that would be better spent on more effective weapons that we already have, Putin is here and now, not in 10 years time.

Imho Europe needs to rapidly increase production of shells, missiles, air defence systems, planes/pilots & of course somehow, this is probably extremely difficult, get people to join the armed forces.

MagicFox · 23/11/2024 16:50

Well there was the Warsaw statement the other day promising greater cooperation and integration...

notimagain · 23/11/2024 16:38

MissConductUS · 23/11/2024 16:23

It is a huge shift and very welcome. Now they have to spend more efficiently. There's no reason why they can't standardize on one MBT, for example.

You’re not wrong but probably the only way you’re going to get one European MBT is by dividing up the work between all the major European AFV builders..so you’ve got to get (from memory) BAe, Rheinmettal, KNDS and I think Iveco on board with the idea and all agreeing to play nicely…

MissConductUS · 23/11/2024 16:23

WarProf · 23/11/2024 16:16

I completely agree that Europe isn't spending nearly as much as it should on defence, but it is at least mostly moving in the right direction, and I expect that to continue. 75% of members are spending at or above the 2% of GDP guideline. That's a huge shift from 5 years ago.

Edited

It is a huge shift and very welcome. Now they have to spend more efficiently. There's no reason why they can't standardize on one MBT, for example.

WarProf · 23/11/2024 16:20

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 16:11

@herecomesautumn I am not pro Putin or anti Ukraine.

Never mind, it's a terribly sad thing.

It is, though what's happening to the Russians who choose to go to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians isn't really as sad as what's happening to the Ukrainians who've done nothing more than exist in their own homes and are being raped, tortured, and murdered for it.

WarProf · 23/11/2024 16:16

Alexandra2001 · 23/11/2024 14:28

Yes agree but so far, i don't really see much sign of European Governments being bothered enough to act and increase military spending.

As i said earlier, we need to take spending here to 3% plus even our 2.3% includes pensions, admin and police training in military tactics.

I think in real terms, UK spending is slightly less than it was in 2010/11,, we've slashed our infantry, ships and planes since then.

Too many people think appeasing Putin is the way to avoid further conflict.

I completely agree that Europe isn't spending nearly as much as it should on defence, but it is at least mostly moving in the right direction, and I expect that to continue. 75% of members are spending at or above the 2% of GDP guideline. That's a huge shift from 5 years ago.

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 16:11

@herecomesautumn I am not pro Putin or anti Ukraine.

Never mind, it's a terribly sad thing.

WarProf · 23/11/2024 16:08

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:50

Please tell me what choice does a Russian conscript have?

Most of them are not conscripts, they're contract soldiers - kontraktniki - so they absolutely have the choice. Of course, if like many of them you're very poor and from an extremely poor region (for context, about a quarter of the Russian population has no indoor toilet), then the prospect of a huge salary is going to look irresistible.

herecomesautumn · 23/11/2024 16:00

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:50

Please tell me what choice does a Russian conscript have?

Also, Putin does not send conscripts to fight "abroad"

Unless ......shock horror.......he's a lying piece of shit 🤷🏻‍♀️

herecomesautumn · 23/11/2024 15:59

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:50

Please tell me what choice does a Russian conscript have?

How many of the dead russians are conscripts?

How many are criminals released from prisons?

How many are signed up to a private military company?

How many voluntarily murder Ukrainians for the money paid by the russian government?

I'll save my sympathy for the victims of this savage invasion

Rosscameasdoody · 23/11/2024 15:58

notimagain · 23/11/2024 15:54

Does that matter/is it relevant?

Yes, of course it does. Because Putin is spinning lies and deception to his own people. Conscripts have no choice and the mothers who are watching their sons go off to certain death have been sold a lie. Ukrainians are not the only victims here - Putin also has the blood of his own people on his hands.

notimagain · 23/11/2024 15:54

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:50

Please tell me what choice does a Russian conscript have?

Does that matter/is it relevant?

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:50

Please tell me what choice does a Russian conscript have?

fedup33 · 23/11/2024 15:49

herecomesautumn · 23/11/2024 15:03

Assuming you mean russian then how tragic.

Did they mention anything about the numbers of Ukrainians being murdered while defending their country from these poor russians?

Sorry , wrong terminology. Thanks for the correction.

it was just a snippet I heard.