To be so looking forward to how Beth will kill Jamie

So while there's definitely dramatic license to suggest that it was still happening in the 1990s, it 100 percent happened.

I don't doubt it did.

I doubt it did in the 1990s.

And I doubt it involved hysterectomy.

And I doubt, no matter how all native American people may look different, that a 100% Caucasian, wasp, blond young woman; wouldn't have been conspicuous and given them pause.

These are bizarre experiences.

Aren't the medics afraid of being sued?

In the land of litigation.

So he's just grabbed an anachronism and built a central (the central?) plot point around it?

I still don't understand why they would have been doing hysterectomies?

TL was effective enough and the op much cheaper, faster etc than a hysterectomy.

I'd have to watch it back but I thought Jamie signed the consent papers.

I received medical care in the US in the 1990s as a child. My parents (medics) were horrified that within 10 minutes of arriving at hospital, I'd been injected with several medications by a healthcare assistant, without any medical history being taken or their or my consent being asked. I can remember my mother's jaw dropping and her going "WHAT DID YOU JUST DO?! What did you GIVE her?!". I ended up hallucinating and later trying to mutilate myself in the bathroom with the cutlery from my meal.

To put this into context, I'd arrived at that hospital with an infected insect bite! It was a bizarre experience which made us all have a serious lack of trust in the US system.

My father had a similar experience in 2019 when he went to a walk in centre in New York with a cough that he knew
needed simple antibiotics. Came out having been hooked up to an IV, on Oxygen for several hours and injected with a variety of medications without being asked - including the flu, shingles and pneumonia jabs,
which he'd already had! Sent out with a 10 day supply of Amoxcillin and Prednisone. Remember...he's a medic...he knew he just needed a simple course of antibiotics. He was baffled at how quickly everything was done without consent or explanation.

The sterilisation of a teenage girl without informed patient consent is, to me.

From Wikipedia: "In the 1974 case Relf v Weinberger, a district court found that Department of Health and Human Services regulations on sterilization were "arbitrary and unreasonable" because they failed to adequately guarantee the consent of the patient."

"In 1977, lawyer Michael Zavalla filed a case with Washington State after three Cheyenne women from Montana were sterilized without their consent."

So while there's definitely dramatic license to suggest that it was still happening in the 1990s, it 100 percent happened. Given that not all Indigenous Americans look the same and that these clinics were already playing fast and loose with consent, if someone came in saying they wanted an abortion, I doubt they would have too many qualms about it or demand to see proof of ethnicity.

Forced sterilisation including hysterectomy without consent was apparently not uncommon up until 70s but doesn’t work for the timeline of the show.

it's actually not so far-fetched as to be impossible to believe.

The sterilisation of a teenage girl without informed patient consent is, to me.

The hysterectomy, when TL was effective and much faster and easier, also.

And it was a clinic for native Americans, but it was blatantly obvious she wasn't one ..... So you'd imagine the staff would have been cautious.

And they'd still just have been doing tubal ligations, which would not stop a woman conceiving and carrying her own kids (she'd have to have IVF though).

There is no way there were doing hysterectomies unnecessarily. Much longer, more expensive, more risky operation (and might become open abdominal surgery if it's not working laparoscopically) ...and totally unnecessary since TL is usually effective.

Beths abortion was Montana in the nineties…. And understanding the history of the way the indigenous people were treated, and that it was a clinic for native Americans, and explains that bit

Exactly @Thesebloominhorses Indigenous people were treated as though they were barely more functional than animals. If you watch the backstory series 1883 and especially 1923, this becomes very clear.

I mean, you do have to allow for a little dramatic license (after all, Yellowstone is basically a modern Western soap opera, and they are not exactly known for the plausibility of their storylines) but it's actually not so far-fetched as to be impossible to believe.

Anyone watched the spin offs? Any of them any good?

just watching first ones of 5B. Really disappointed Costner and the co-creator couldn’t find a way to bury their differences and make it work. It feels like it will be a weaker show without a figurehead.

new episodes have reminded me how much I love the soundtrack to this show though and their use of “real” people - cowboys, rodeo and the spur maker

Surely there was still a requirement for patient consent for permanent sterilisation, informed consent?

It was the 1990s, not the 1890s.

I thought that the reason Beth was sterilised was because it was at the Reservation Clinic and there was a government policy of sterilising Native American women instead of simply terminating the pregnancy. The receptionist explained it to Jamie and suggested he take her elsewhere and he said it was fine without discussing it with Beth.

To be honest I thought it was because he was supremely thick and didn't give a shit about his sister's future.

I wish she'd told Rip instead 😥

ETA Cross posted!

@DamselinDistress24 but we’re looking at it from a UK perspective. Beths abortion was Montana in the nineties…. And understanding the history of the way the indigenous people were treated, and that it was a clinic for native Americans, and explains that bit (although still a bit far fetched, but I took it as one of Taylor’s political virtue signals he loves to shoe horn into the whole Yellowstone saga and spin offs)

And another one!

What the ....?

Oh well, more chunky, masculine ones for the rest of us.

That seems like an insightful interpretation.

True (re. her eldest brother).

Still doesn't make any sense whatsoever that an abortion & sterilisation clinic would be doing hysterectomies (unless as an emergency life saving procedure if something went disastrously wrong or something, and that wasn't said in the plot (?)).

Still doesn't make any sense that Beth as the patient wouldn't have had anything explained to her by a clinician and her consent established.

Like they'd permanently, irrevocably steriliser a teenager and not question it.
Even now, I've seen young women in the US and here who have decided they don't want to have kids and have requested sterilisation, say they've been repeatedly turned down by clinicians, and told maybe when they're older.

Also is Jamie supposed to have believed Beth would never ever tell anyone - including Rip and her Dad what happened; surely Jamie wasn't stupid enough to believe it would never come out, as Beth got older/got married etc and never had kids. He's not supposed to be dumb.

@CheekyHobson that’s exactly how I interpreted it.

Also have a massive crush on Ryan Bingham who plays Walker. I too love wirey looking guys. I love his music too. Swoooon

I don't really get his motivation in sterilising Beth .... Is he supposed to have secretly hated her so it was a way to get at her? Their relationship didn't seem that bad back then (?) If it had been that bad, why wouldn't she have asked her other older brother to help her, instead of him?

I think he was taking a very paternalistic view of thinking he could decide what was "best" for her given that she had clearly spun out after her mother's death (and from being treated so poorly by her mum before then). Jamie is incredibly arrogant, he thinks he's better than everyone else, yet at the same time craves their approval.

Being closer in age to Beth, he was probably more the natural person for her to go to instead of Lee. Given that Lee was already being trained up to run the ranch as the oldest son, she might have thought he was more likely to tell their Dad.

you are wasting your talents writing on here

Not another one!

😀

My boyfriend looks a lot like Walker so I definitely get it!

I have always liked wiry guys rather than beefy ones, I love a pair of pretty eyes and talent goes a long way :-)

Struggling without Kevin but Rip will carry the season I think. Rip reminds me of my husband so much but must admit I've also got a wee crush on Walker 🤤

Does anyone else fail to understand Walker's (apparent) attraction.

The laydeez always seem to be eyeing him up and jumping on his *#+k ...... Meanwhile I'm like "he's skinny, small bodied, his face is not masculine, and his accent is extreme & not particularly attractive .....wtf?"

Moanica

Lol.

It's not her fault, is it though. It's the storylines she's been given.

In any case, the plot point is ridiculous because even then, no clinician is going to sterilise a young woman without making sure she understands what will happen and getting her consent, the patient's consent not her brother's/possibly thought to be bf's.

On top of that, the sterilisation would just have been a tubal ligation; not a hysterectomy. And so she could still have had her own kids bit would had to have IVF.

No clinic would ever be doing hysterectomies unnecessarily - when tubal ligation would do the job.
More cost, time, patient risk, recovery period etc. etc. It makes no sense at all, it's a really weak plot point.

The writer doesn't seem to know how to write women (Beth is nearly a caricature) and doesn't appear to know basics about "women's" procedures.

Either that or just ignores really basic facts to create plot points.
Ridiculous plot points.

Well to be fair I do have faceblindness, so that doesn't help! ;)