Trainees no longer ready for workplace

We recently had an apprentice for our events business. A 19 year old who would be with us for 4 days a week and then college for a day to qualify as a technician. He’d gone through various interviews alongside others interested in the events business he was told he may get the chance to be at some major music events, even some abroad. started late the first two days, and then didn’t come back at all, a complete waste of everyone’s time. Told us he found it difficult getting in for 8:30 am (lives locally with a car) but decided he was going back to his old job at Marcie D’s……he’d rather be a supervisor there telling others what to do, than be told what to do here, seemed to think he’d be running his own McDonalds within 5 years…..

My friend who is a police officer told me her and her team was called to the scene of a suicide in a house had a 6-month police trainee with them and the trainee called his Dad to the crime scene for support as he found the situation anxiety inducing. A random civilian off the street just invited to walk into a crime scene! Everyone was apoplectic.

I work in HE in a competitive subject at a top ranked university so nothing to do with expanding the sector too far. I am shocked at what I’m seeing - I struggle to see how these people will be able to hold down jobs. About 65-70% of them apply for an extension (they can self-certify up to five days so most of them apply for that routinely). I’m not allowed to ask about 25% of them any questions in seminars because of their learning plans that say they get anxious from being asked direct questions. So because I can’t memorise who has a plan and who doesn’t, I don’t ask anyone anything in seminars- I ask for volunteers to speak and often get none. If a student books an appointment with me about 50% of the time they don’t show and then send me an email asking to rebook. A large proportion of submitted work has clear evidence of AI use and I’ve heard that many students buy their essays. It’s quite depressing really and something is going wrong big time.

God I assumed you were being facetious 😬

I’m finding the opposite is true - in my 40s and following a career change (to an area closely linked to my old profession, so lots of relevant experience/skills) I’m being turned down for roles in favour of people in their 20s, despite having 3 degrees, good references and a strong employment record. It’s not just me as I’ve spoken to many people in a similar predicament. IME employers seem to prefer younger, more malleable staff who don’t have kids.

Please don't tar all young people of this age with the same brush

It's very unfair to generalise about any age group.

The children in my street are mostly late teens and early twenties now and are delightful, pleasant and mannerly, and I'm sure hard-working and reliable.

However the experiences mentioned about some in this thread are concerning.

Its a "big". Salaries are high - fully commensurate with our expectations of them in the workplace. We know the job is tough.

All my peers at comparable organisations describe the same experience. In reality many of them will be exited via the performance process which is a huge waste of our time and money.

As I said its not all by any means but ten years ago this was so rare that it would be noted and investigated as an aberration, now its a percentage of every cohort. Our clients describe far worse experiences - probably because they are slightly less demanding at the recruitment stage.

100% this. Schools are held accountable for progress. However, how can children make progress if they turn up late or not at all. Parents, OFSTED, Government still expect the same results. Children/parents take little responsibility for their own learning because that is what the system tells them. I am a year 6 TA and the number of children who do not know times tables is shocking. This is despite this cohort sitting the year 4 tables test. We tell them that they need to take responsibility /ownership of this and go home and learn them but few actually do. We see staggering progress in the ones that do because they can spend more time actually learning and understanding the more complex mathematical concepts. It has got to a point where I have become so demoralised by it that I have started putting my foot down and spending less time with the children that can’t be bothered. I would rather help children who want to learn and are willing to put in the effort to help themselves. Imo we need to stop spoon feeding children and start letting them fail but unless the system changes this isn’t going to happen. The spoon feeding carries on to university and then we have the situation that so many of you are describing where grown adults can’t cope with the real world of work.

Schools seem to pander a lot more, zero resilience managing and their expectations aren’t managed properly by anyone. Everything is mental health related and they would rather doom scroll on their phones. Sister is a manager in hospitality and has 6th form work experience kids in. She has to send them packing after a few days. She actually said one kid snorted at her like Kevin the teenager when asked to get out her work schedule and said loudly “don’t tell me what to do coz I ain’t doing it, can’t be bothered fam”. My sister went old school and told the kid a few home truths and made her cry. This is what a lot of companies are now dealing with. Attitude isn’t there in the majority of them and they appear to be missing a backbone.

This really saddens me. My DS and his gf (both 23) are both really hard-working and have struggled so much to get decent jobs, even with good degrees from good unis. I think they're discarded because of their age without anyone even looking at all the experience they've racked up while studying. I can honestly say they're not like this at all (and I'm not being starry eyed). Please don't tar all young people of this age with the same brush.

Yep
I wish I was joking.

Mid-20s trainee today asked to work from home so they could help their boyfriend move house. Well you won’t be working if you’re shifting furniture and boxes will you?! So then asked to leave early instead. This is six weeks into job, still on probation.

eta - also sat twiddling thumbs after completing a task I’d set, rather than letting me know it was completed and asking what they could do next. I’m very friendly and approachable at work, ask me if you have any questions etc so being scared would not be the issue.

In that case it's the ones you hire. If any of ours pulled any of those stunts they'd never hear the end of it.

What do you pay them?

Me too! My eldest teen has a Saturday job which is already developing resilience, people skills and just having to suck it up and do things you don’t want to. I made her go round local shops/cafes and take in her cv even though she just wanted to email. I asked her to make phone calls to arrange/follow up on interviews even though she didn’t know what to say - I coached her and now she’s much more confident in knowing what to say and less reluctant to make calls.
When my kids want to just not bother with things when they’re not in the mood, we point out that they’ve made a commitment and adult life in the real world doesn’t work like that - you can’t just pull out of things or not turn up when you don’t feel like it. Hopefully there are enough sensible parents in this world that we’re not completely screwed in terms of future workforce.

My take on it is that the education system in England teaches children from their earliest years, that their teachers will be held more to account for what they do in a test or exam than they will.
Schools compound it: "our results" "my results"
We dread parents' evenings as teachers, knowing that we will be berated if a student isn't performing at the level that their parent feels they should be at.
Is it any wonder that that many of them don't own their own progress or outcomes?

The issue of this thread is not an expecting juniors to come fully able to do the job in question from day 1. Rather the issue is the basic work ethic and social practices in a shared workplace such as turning up on time, not letting people down, being considerate of others in the workforce, etc etc

Precisely, @C8H10N4O2, though I'm glad many have pointed out that it's some rather than damning an entire cohort

Equally, as a PP rightly reminded us, there are some employers who haven't the least interest in training, but then it depends what training we're talking about. Fair enough with the details of the job, but not with turning up and being prepared to do some actual work - and how can you train someone who's not there or isn't listening anyway?

So we get employers blaming the Unis, who blame secondary schools, who in turn blame primaries and so it goes on
Call me naive, but what about the parents' role in all this?

I've had 2 colleagues who were persistently late because they moved somewhere inconvenient or wanted to buy off peak tickets because the new journey was so expensive. The workplace and their hours had not changed. Both are in their 40s so not necessarily a young person thing.
One is late if they can't get a lift to the station even though they have their own car

Agreed and that's where work experience, Saturday and summer jobs really help.

What do you mean? Like not wiping their bums?? 😳

Thanks for the reminder about the Bobiverse! I am going to re-listen when I've finished my current Audible book

I'm not so sure. We were taught the wrong Geography syllabus and I still managed to get an A. In the 80s. I think it was more weighted on essays, which weren't marked so tightly.

I used to work in insurance and a job in this soul sucking industry is 100% not worth all that effort 😂

The problem with the 'younger cohort' approach of slacking off, turning up late, not meeting deadlines and expecting your colleagues to be ok with it is that in teaching (as per the OP) and I'm sure many other professions, if you do this, you are dropping your massively stretched colleagues in it.

Teachers are all flat out with their own workload. If their trainee doesn't meet a deadline, that's extra work for the mentor. If they're late, they need to be covered. If they're 'off sick' because they had an essay due, then that's more work for the mentor who has likely found out at the last minute that they're now going to be teaching the class. It is rude and disrespectful to the person who is giving up their own time for no extra pay to train you to constantly add to their workload by not doing the basic minimum.

And the suggestion that trainees should be failed for this is laughable. The government has basically said PGCE providers need to accept anyone onto the course and no one is allowed to fail. The most you can hope is that they will drop out.

Related to this, ime, is willingness to attend the office. I’m always astounded that the younger the staff member, the more likely they are to avoid coming in at all costs. Not turning up to team office days because they are having a parcel delivered, or need to walk their neighbour’s auntie’s dog. Often these are people who live walking distance to the office!

I feel quite sad that they won’t be making the friends and networks we all did, by coming in to the office regularly (and going for drinks on a Thursday or Friday!)

Interesting thread. I work in HR for a large insurance company. Our accountancy grads/trainees are generally excellent and hard working, eager to learn and have a good attitude.

The contact centre ones are a challenge for us, and it’s got worse over ten years. We actively promote from within- several MDs etc have come from being trainees in the call centre, but you have to turn up on time, not mess around, not phone in sick because your fake nail broke and needs an emergency manicure…

We offer cv workshops, interview practice etc with local high schools to help them get work ready but honestly turning up on time not in a tracksuit would be a big improvement.