Trainees no longer ready for workplace

I work in HR in an industry that’s notoriously hard to break into and very popular. 10 years ago people were super diligent on work experience/internships, always wanting to take the opportunity to learn. It’s a completely different story now, someone last week fell asleep, another person didn’t turn up because they were tired after a holiday…it goes on, constantly. The attitude towards work has changed hugely.

Also to the person who said that boomer standards at work are changing, I’m a millennial. My parents are boomers so it’s definitely not the case that I have an outdated attitude. I was not made to stand in a corner at work when I was a trainee but I respected my seniors and worked hard and took the initiative. It’s made me the professional I am today. I certainly didn’t go in thinking I knew it all, that I was able to refuse to follow instructions or could choose when to turn up.

My partner has trainees at his work who don’t do their work because they’re tired from gaming all night, tell him that they have nothing to learn from him because they know better and one group who went on a lads trip abroad and all called in sick. I don’t see anything collaborative about that.

They will need to show they meet the teaching standards for Universities to be allowed to pass them.

They'd have to be actually dead for a university to not pass them.

I’m a late gen x (mid 40s), so far from a boomer. In no way does my organisation have authoritarian working styles or unreasonable expectations. It’s actually a fairly flat structure where even the directors sit alongside people of all levels within various departments. People are very much collaborative and everyone is respected and given autonomy to do their own job, with guidance when asked for. It’s pretty much standard 9.30-5.30 most of the time, people aren’t expected to sell their souls and are paid above market rate with great benefits.
Despite this, we’ve seen a marked difference in the recent recruits in the 21-26 age bracket. We have people a few years older who weren’t like that when they started. Your assessment of ‘boomer working styles’ is wrong.

They will need to show they meet the teaching standards for Universities to be allowed to pass them.

I imagine many will have dropped out by Christmas anyway.

I tried doing the Uni PGCE route over twenty years ago and no one told me I had to be in school other than for lessons I was teaching. It's usually only a couple of hours to begin with so they probably are doing that because no one tells you differently.

Second time around, about five years ago, I did a PGCE SCITT. It was clear that I needed to be by 8am and probably there until 4pm unless I had an appointment and went straight after the kids did. I was on placement with Uni PGCE people who clearly didn't get the expectations because no one had bothered to tell them. I'd agree though that they do seem to lack enthusiasm compared to SCITT trainees. It's actually a horrible way to learn the job.

Just on a positive note -
I have a trainee teacher in my class at the moment and she’s great!! Just didn’t want everyone tarred with the same brush as there’s still good ones out there!

I work in a totally different industry that also uses trainees, I was one myself not too long ago and am experiencing the same thing. It doesn’t help that the new crops are being pampered by the employers.

I have reached a point where I agree with you. I'm 37. I have tried so hard to see the positives younger people bring in work but this past year has made me so alarmed.

I'm a doctor- a consultant in hospital medicine. I have Fy1s and Fy2s on my team who are aged about 23 or 24 and simply cannot manage work and life in the way I did not even that long ago. Many are exempt from certain shifts due to anxiety, neurodiversity etc. They need to be given direct and specific instructions for everything and the only ones who will take.the initiative to e.g. start doing some investigations are the older ones who did medicine as a postgraduate degree. When I was an F1 it was absolutely my job to know the patients like the back of my hand. When the boss asked for a result I knew it, I took the notes and took pride in doing it well. As a consultant I now do all my own notes as the F1s simply refuse. Every question is answered by "ill just look it up on the computer". It's so depressing and the work my senior registrars end up doing basically covers a much more junior role. It worries me that these people will eventually be consultants, who will prop them up then?!

I think today that is sadly the case. I do worry that our young people don't have the faintest idea about who they will be competing with globally. People who are willing to work hard to rise up the ranks. Indian and Nigerian students stand out.

I agree. I manage a volunteer organisation and we have older teens who want to volunteer for school awards especially if they are applying to uni. The emails they send sometimes are wild. Eg just send a email with only their name. We are meant to assume this means they can come. Or they write "I can help" in the email title and no actual content in the email.

These are clever teenagers who are exected to do very well at school/uni so they are easily capable of writing "Hello X. I can volunteer to help in 2 weeks. From Sam" which in my mind is the bare minimum when sending an email?!!

I am in secondary and can recognise a lot of what you say.

I run subject knowledge sessions for our SCITT and in fairness, my group are great and I enjoy working with them.

The ECT1 in my department (I'm HoD) is incredibly hard work though. Obviously, I absolutely expect to support and help him, but the level of handholding is ridiculous. He is also attached to my form and puts in zero effort with that.
However, I am told it's 'too early' for cause for concern 🙄

I am a retired teacher now but at the college I was at we had an open day for people to sign up for different courses in the new school year.

My interview table was for 16 to 25 year olds, and a lad came up to me and sat down. I asked him for his school certificates and he handed me a certificate in art.

I asked him about English, Science and Maths as he wanted to do Engineering. He said that all through school he was told to sit at the back and behave, as he had behavioural issues.

He told me that he used to draw in class, so he began to be a very good artist. I agreed, but said that perhaps he should consider a career in commercial art etc.

He went to the student support desk and complained. Someone came to investigate, and when I pointed out that he didn't meet the entry requirements.

They said that they were paid £3,500 to have his bum on a seat in the college.
Since I taught Science Technology Engineering and Maths they said surely I could manage to bring him up to speed.

That all makes perfect sense, Startinganew32, except I'd have hoped a leading Uni could still attract enough with real ability to be able to avoid slackers

The intake at my local one is disastrous and having got to the point where they'll take just about anyone with a pulse they've joined that unhappy band where some leading companies regard one of their degrees as no degree at all, but as said I'd have expected better from the top 20 or so

I'm agree. I had a student placement earlier this year. A colleague invited my student to complete a piece of work ( legal report) student was given examples and had a sit down meeting on what was required.
When completed student had written some information that did not make sense. When I gave her feedback she started crying and complained I was not 'kind and understanding'
This student was very academically bright but had not clue about professionalism, team work, taking initiative etc..
I definitely think professions such as teaching, law and social work needs to have a minimum age of 25.

The uni is, like nearly all other unis, concerned about finances (another big problem for another thread is the large number of overseas students who have insufficient English language skills but whom we are told to pass because they bring in fees) and will bend over backwards to try to keep students happy. A learning support plan is drawn up by the support services and does not require any independent evidence so the anxiety is largely self-reported. We also have horrible cases like the Natasha Abrahart suicide at Bristol where a lot of blame is being placed on the university (the student’s parents want to introduce a stronger duty of care for universities) so it is better to be safe than sorry and avoid any potential repercussions.
So in answer, due to fear and financial pressures, the uni is doing very little to enable students to become highly functioning future workers.

We are finding just the same with veterinary students. It’s as though they are doing us a favour by turning up as they are not being paid and yet a lot of effort goes into preparing for their placement. They tell us they can no longer take part in their farm placements as they have more important paid work to do. They just don’t seem to see that these experiences are an important part of their training and understand of the profession they claim they want to be part of 🤷‍♀️

I thought young people were complaining about expensive housing and how even a house share is too much, so they'll have to live at home forever. I would have thought they'd be snapping up extra shifts.

I work in HE in a competitive subject at a top ranked university ... I’m not allowed to ask about 25% of them any questions in seminars because of their learning plans that say they get anxious from being asked direct questions

In that case I'd have to ask what the hell they're doing at a top ranked university, @Startinganew32, and perhaps more to the point what the Uni are doing allowing this to develop

I've all the time in the world for supporting the genuinely disabled, but if anyone's trying to claim that a whole 25% of supposedly high achieving students are so affected by "anxiety" that they can't answer a question ... I'm sorry but I just don't believe them

@KindlyOldGoat this situation is no better in your 50s or 60s and that's assuming one's children have left home by then.
I think employers just prefer young people as they are assumed to be more adaptable (not always true though judging by some of the comments on this thread) and of course, get away with paying them less than someone more experienced.

I have been thinking about this as it seems a phenomenon in the last couple of years. If I have an interesting meeting I would suggest that the trainee comes along, development etc. However, the company has become so fixated with the trainees' development that the trainee then seems to cherry pick tasks that are someway enriching for them ignoring or rushing through the tasks they find boring and getting simple things wrong.

Yes and the infantilisation of young people plays out on the Oxbridge threads on mumsnet. These posters know the inns and outs of everything to do with life at Cambridge or Oxford, from admissions through to career opportunities post graduation.

Anyone posting on those threads needs to ask themselves why they are so overly invested in it? They are not studying at Oxbridge. Their DC are obviously bright enough to figure it all out on their own. They need to be independent and steer their own path in life.

Are these parents trying to live vicariously through their DC, to feel a sense of achievement ? I can’t see how it’s healthy for parents to be so involved in university life.

I was recently invited to train some apprentices in my industry by an external training provider. I had the post lunch time slot and was gobsmacked by how many came back late, still eating, on phones etc. More than once during the training I stopped speaking as the odd pair were just chatting amongst themselves.

Regardless, I sent all attendees an email the following day thanking them for their time and ensuring they had my contact details for future reference. One replied to thank me and say they found my industry insights valuable, another replied to complain that she hadn't been given a prize voucher from a different presenter and could I sort it - not a peep from the other 18.

My workplace is also very relaxed (I actually don't like going in as all the chat and fun stuff going on distracts me and I get behind), with great benefits, flexible working (2 office days only,) and slightly above industry average pay. The turn over of young staff is incredible - they don't feel valued, should earn more even if it's their first job, want more holiday time, don't want to be given targets etc. The older staff have been there years and wouldn't dream of leaving as it's genuinely very relaxed.

I left teaching because I was so fed up of the way things were going in school. I believed we were failing the pupils by mollycoddling them, giving them constant ‘time out’ cards when they got anxious, bending over backwards to make their lives in school as soft as possible, allowing them to hide away from things they found hard or didn’t like, parents who wouldn’t let us discipline children without complaining that their angel didn’t deserve it… etc
It does not surprise me that we are now having these problems.

Welcome to the next generation folks. A result of gentle parenting and teachers being unable to discipline/teach kids accordingly due to parental backlash and kids ‘mental health issues/ADHD/ASD/anxiety’.

Please tell me this isn’t true!

My own experience and those of friends is the same - Civil Service, academia, retail, hospitality. ‘Precious’ has become a swear word in my view, along with ‘banter’.