Trainees no longer ready for workplace

What are the parents saying about this? First thing I would be doing is taking house keeping money from both of them. A realistic sum that shows them how much it costs for their upkeep. Show them just how much it costs to run a home. They have it easy because they have never been exposed to how much life costs. My Dd is 20 but is under no illusion as to how much things cost because we tell her. She knows how much our mortgage, gas and electric bills are per month, how much we spend on food, and all other household bills. She is lucky in many ways as we pay her university rent and she gets to keep the minimum maintenance loan to live on but she still got a job to pay for extras. A 1 bed flat in our area is £1200, 3 bed house opposite us rented for £2,200 last month. She knows that she needs to work hard to have any chance of getting a place of her own whether rented or mortgaged. Parents are to blame if their child thinks working 16 hours a week in McDonalds is going to get you a decent home and standard of living.

If parents are allowing her to move her bf in, and I assume not charging them market rate for bed and board and/or subsidising cars, they won’t have a great deal of incentive to work more hours or get qualified!

I don't think it helps that when I was young, all the kids dreamed of either being footballers, pop stars or actors. But by our teens we realised that only the exceptionally talented could make a career out of those, so we would have to knuckle down and actually work towards normal careers and jobs to live.
Today - ask a class of kids and they all want to be YouTubers or TikTok stars and can see you need absolutely zero talent to become big and make a very decent sum of money. Why would they want to work in a stuffy office being bossed around when they could make more money on their phones in their lunch breaks. There isn't the same motivation as there once was. It's very much the attitude of "you need me more than I need you" that I think is what comes across as entitlement.

Yes I wonder how the pp who said this would feel if her midwife, nurse or doctor decided to care more about themselves than others. My guess is she wouldn’t like it. All the caring professions require a degree of going above and beyond on a regular basis and so do jobs like teaching and law - it can be really hard work but everyone has to chip in. What these people’s attitude shows is extreme selfishness and lack of awareness. SOMEONE is still having to put the work in to ensure the job is done properly but it’s not little Alfie or Lily-Mae, who have prioritised their own self-care by coming into work two hours late or by calling Daddy because they (a police officer) are freaked out by a crime scene.

Oh I absolutely agree with you too, and we do support DD hugely. She's very happy and I think thriving, and is more suited to her private school and its ways of helping her learn.

Equally though, I do see your point, and agree how private schools could perhaps have a detrimental effect on some people. But then, I feel maybe the local comprehensive might have been detrimental to my DD too. Each to their own 😎👍

I’m not convinced a private education always builds resilience. I went to a very academic private school and it destroyed my confidence. It was also riddled with depression, anxiety, ED, suicide attempts, drugs, self-harm, etc — and this was in the 90s. IMO the most important factor in a child’s success is parental support and engagement.

A family member of mine is 20 still living at home and moved her 21 year old BF into parents house, sharing a tiny room in what is a tiny house with another teen & 2 parents.
Both dropped out of college and got a job at McDonald’s. Both refuse to work more than 16 hours a week and have to be on the same shifts. Recently both cried when looking at a small flat in the local area realised the average rent was £800-900… neither have bothered to look for a better job or even work FT at McDonalds.
Have given up the idea of moving out. How do they expect to get on in life only working 16 hours per week? I can’t believe the lack of work ethic or ambition. Both of them are more than capable and have parental support cars ect.

This is truly scary.
Back in the 1980s when I was a trainee, these attitudes would have resulted in unemployment within a week.
I really don't know how today's younger people get through life.

If I need CPR, I don't want the professional looking after me to break off and go home because I'm dying at the end of their shift! I don't want them refusing to attend my wounds if too much blood upsets them, or letting me get bedsores as turning patients makes their arms ache.

We all have to care more for others than about ourselves sometimes, and some professions absolutely require it.

Come at me.

This is the most entitled ignorant generation ever produced. aside from the odd outliers.

I can also genuinely say that I'll be pretty sure my DD13 will have more initiative in her training in a new job than I ever did - but I think this is probably a result of her resilient nature, intelligence, and maturity, alongside her education at private school. I think that they foster a more entrepreneurship "can-do" attitude and one that is not so much a "just an employee" mindset.

I'm not surprised by all this, many of my friends say their trainees are now awful, Solicitor, HR etc.

Don't blame the universities for the state of teacher training. There's a lot of pressure from the government to accept unsuitable trainees (e.g. removing entry requirements for having any experience in schools, dropping literacy and numeracy skills tests etc https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-confirms-itt-applicants-wont-be-assessed-on-suitability-to-teach/ ) because there is such a critical shortage of teachers that anyone will do. Retaining them on the course is also more important than getting good teachers, e.g. Teach First have a government target of 90% of trainees getting QTS and they lose bonuses if they fail to meet this).

I agree. I work in a school, we’ve got a trainee TA atm, she didn’t turn up today and 1 day last week. Her college tutor is always ringing asking if she’s in and was she on time etc. On her first day she sat out of sight in our reception area and said nothing. The school clerk went to the loo and noticed she was there an hour later. She sat there and would have seen other visitors coming in, introducing themselves and signing in etc.

Exactly 💯 this.

I remember when my DD started at her private school 2 years ago, and how much I really realised what a huge difference the level ot education and teaching made for her to thrive and be pushed to meeting her potential/having her needs met.

Granted, she is incredibly bright and academic anyway, she pushes herself regardless. But I know there was a chance that had she gone to the local state comprehensive, it might have been a totally different kettle of fish. It would probably have been fine, I'm sure, but she'd certainly never had been pushed in the way she is being now. I can tell the current curriculum seems at a higher level at the private school, as the French she has been taught aged 13 is developing on a par to what I learned at A' level.

We'd have been ok with her at the local state school, but I'm so grateful we've had the opportunity for a bursary and she has been so good at getting her scholarship for the private school though. It's certainly really beneficial for her.

Yes definitely. Not all, but most.
I have someone 2 years out of uni who does no planning and came crying into my room because I wasn't planning my lessons fast enough for her to teach them e.g. I'd have year 8 on Thursday so I'd plan their lesson Wednesday night, but she'd have them on the Wednesday. Most newly qualified teachers I'm noticing recently only know how to pull up a PowerPoint and deliver a lesson but can't read a scheme of work or plan a lesson. and moan about aspects of their job like duties and parents' evenings.

It's not just teaching though. My SIL is an architect and says those that come on the graduate scheme are completely work shy.

I get there is a worklife balance shift but when it comes down to not doing the job effectively at all, they do need to be reminded that they are selling their skills and time, we are not holding them hostage

Bums on seats " universities " are anti- education.

My organisation takes part in an intern programme for the summer (final year undergrads mostly) and has done for a few years. We are very progressive and a ‘young’ company. There’s a notable decline in quality and this year the intake was shocking; feedback shared by several other companies who participated.

Attitude, preparedness for the workplace, willingness to actually work, technical skills we’d expect to be covered at Uni - all massively lacking. We’ve chalked it up to likely being a tough few years as it’s a group that didn’t sit some exams and had a hard time through COVID but that was a few years ago now and we can’t keep saying that.

Given that there is so much competition something is going very wrong at the selection stage then.

@pollymere this was a work placement. Surely one of the first questions you ask is what the hours are? And classroom work will only be part of that?

I think one of the main issues as other PPs have said is the difference in parenting over the last 10 or so years (and then Covid on top). Parents often do not support teachers and are enraged if the teacher suggests their child has misbehaved. They want allowances, they give excuses and they will not accept it is their child’s fault. I am not including kids with SEN in this. I think this has led to many children knowing full well they won’t get into trouble or have any repercussions for not doing work or misbehaving and so they just do what the hell they like with their parents holding their hand all the way up to adulthood. They don’t learn to use their initiative or to take any kind of responsibility for their learning or for their actions. And this is what happens when these children become adults sadly.

Did you just rock up at school for 2 hours or something to teach and then go home? On placement?

Maybe no one told you because it really doesn't need to be said!
I'm stunned you think like this

Exactly, as a generation they actually brought about a lot more equality in the workplace! But Gen Z have grown up with unimaginative memes calling anymore over the age of 30 Boomers and Karens, so I’m not surprised to see this sort of nonsense repeated.

Has it ever occurred to some adults that authoritarian working styles, commonly associated with boomers, may be ineffective?

The boomers weren't authoritarian - they were the drivers of the rapid social changes in society from the 1960s onwards.