Trainees no longer ready for workplace

Parents are s nightmare.
I gave a detention to a boy who was poking a pen into and electrical socket instead of working in class.
The mother insisted that he would not sit it as it was too severe a punishment (3O mins).

The young people alongside my Ds are generally hard working and very conscientious, and know how to take responsibility.

Ds and all his friends did Scout activities that would have half MN (from the posts I see) having a conniption fit. Building shelters in woods and spending the night in them, planning 2 day hiking expeditions (with none of the spoon feeding that goes on with DoE Bronze) , learning proper first aid, all manner of skills and experiences.

One of them got a very good, very well paid entry level opportunity in a prestigious company that works for clients, had to deliver under pressure to big deadlines. His public sector, union member parents nearly scuppered his probation for supporting his naive understand that at 5pm you simply stop, down tools and leave, no matter how important it might be to spend 10 mins completing a vital task in the run up to a deadline.

There is a real balance to be struck between work ethic and fair employment conditions and so few seem to get it just right. Employers of employees.

I think the WFH culture is terrible for junior members. They lose so much general experience that you pick up just being around a team.

I also wonder if it's to do with the fact that schools involve parents for everything these days.

Back in the day, if you did something naughty in school, the school disciplined you and that was that. It had to be something pretty awful and/or repetitive to get the parents involved. Schools seem to want parents to helicopter these days. I used to get told about the most ridiculous thing my son did like throwing a rubber across the room. Whereas my school wouldn't have phoned parents unless you were eg pulling someone's hair out.

How many parents come on here and talk about punishing their child for something they did wrong in school? That doesn't breed resilience, it breeds resentment.

I also don't recognise the idea that teachers don't or can't discipline children. As I said above, the rules are ridiculously strict now, especially around things like uniform. Teachers should concentrate on teaching and learning. Also reduce homework so kids can do out of school activities and enhance their soft skills.

I actually don't think any of this is that hard.

Some evidence for that statement would be helpful, and not just anecdote from this thread.

@fiddleleaffig they will also find that becoming a YouTuber/TikTok star takes a lot of luck and hard work, in a different type of way. It's only the unusually good looking ones and the ones who are good at talking constantly and really churning out content who can make a living from it.

Thank you so much for saying this.

That misconception has a lot to answer for.

I suspect a lot of these young people are actually missing ideal developmental windows because they aren't being allowed to have the necessary experiences.

There is a reason every functional society gives teens and even tweens big increases in real responsibility, and very firm social feedback.

Yes that stuff is disturbing. I see it all the time at open days - the parents asking question after question and the kid, the one who is actually going to be doing the course, stands there with a blank impression.
I do sometimes joke to them that we accept mature students too. But they’re asking about assignments, contact hours, all sorts. I only went to one open day when I was in 6th form and I went on my own. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone come on their own for years now I think about it. It’s always mum, dad, sometime some bored-looking younger siblings who are promised “it will be your turn soon” by the parents.
That’s why parents then expect us to know where their adult child is at all times and to inform them if they fail an assignment (which we can’t do).

Yes 100% soft parenting and making things too easy for them. They pay £30 a week house keeping.. and get everything for that. We were not brought up like that we had tough love and all have good jobs and own houses. This soft parenting is doing them no favours whatsoever.. this young generation are so different though.. I was out every night socialising but still at work on time everyday. This lot don’t leave their bedrooms.. never go out.. (other than a couple of shifts per per week) how boring! Totally alien to my youth.

Yes -I know a civil servant who has managed to get yo work entirely from home (the rest of the team office based) because if his OCD makes it difficult for him to leave the house yo go to work. (But not for his numerous hobbies)

Like a previous poster I also know a woman in her 50s who was recruited a couple of years ago as BA cabin crew! Newly divorced, grown kids, working hard but having a fantastic time and, as you say, her work ethic and customer-facing skills and reliability are appreciated and well-rewarded.

This is ridiculous, Dd’s (private) school basically tells parents that too many abscences will result in their kids place being withdrawn. If you can’t be arsed to come then they can’t be arsed to hold a place for you. Theres a big focus on parents doing their bit.

Yes, I’ve noticed on those threads that there is a lot of use of “we” rather than he/she/they e.g. “we’ve heard back from the college now”; “we’ve firmed Exeter” and so on. There is no “we” about it - your child is applying as an independent soon-to-be adult. Your role as a parent is to support them, not get so involved that you end up announcing “we’ve got in”!

The teacher one is a bit also that the sectors decided workload is an issue and the way to deal with that is to say don’t work beyond your designated hours and it’s more or less on you to manage it, alongside the thinking that having everyone teach exactly the same is the best (easiest) way to ensure a good education.
But it hasn’t addressed class sizes or planning time as issues because it’s too expensive and difficult to recruit. So tbf they’re being presented with plans and then told not to work beyond their hours and really prep isn’t enough to read the plans and assess properly never mind plan their own lessons and schemes

there are plenty who are quiet quitting before they start, don’t want leadership etc and consider their work life balance right now above all things. But when you ask them if they do want progression they say yes and are surprised that they’ll need to learn to plan and manage properly.

some are awesome. Proactive passionate thoughtful and willing to put in more work now that will pay off in a year or two. Marshmallow test!

I think there are a couple of things. I know there were several students on my PGCE who were there purely for the bursary. One said, "I'm not going to work for less than my bursary" and for some students that is the reality, their bursary is more than the pan of an NQT.

The other is some students (at school) have such an entitled attitude, not all, there are a lot of fantastic ones. The kind of thing I mean was when I told a student off for sticking chewing gum under a desk. I said the student was dirty and that she expected Jane to chisel it off. She asked who Jane was and when I said she was the cleaner I got a look of utter disdain and I was asked, "you know the cleaner's name?"

That may have led to a mini rant about how there was nothing wrong with being a cleaner.

All four of my kids learnt very early that if they wanted money it had to be earned. They took up jobs like delivering home ads, pizza delivery and barrista work from 10 years old through to high school, weekends and holidays.
They all developed a strong work ethic that equipped them for success in the workplace and their careers.

I often had students on placement in the nursery I worked in. It’s different to in a school, but I would match their energy. If I had a good student that wanted to learn I would help them and work with them to achieve the goals. But the times I had someone who didn’t want to be there I didn’t put any effort in. If they didn’t plan ahead and let me know what they needed to do, it didn’t happen. I wouldn’t spend much time on reports or talking to their field assessor. It’s not worth the stress.

Absolutely! We are held responsible for their timekeeping, attendance and achievement.

I have ADHD and have never ticked a disability box. I have learned coping mechanisms and try to get by using them. I could recognise it in a student and would help them develop their own coping techniques.

I agree with you in part but unfortunately they are in the minority. In school they appear to be taught their rights but not their responsibilities and there doesn't seem to be any mention of (school) work ethics.

The thing is... I was expected to plan lessons outside of teaching time pre-internet and I don't think anyone really knew where anyone was in those days.

If I was supposed to be there all day -- perhaps someone should have said? I pretty much completed the course and both my placements before my DH got sick and I had to take care of him. Not a word.

To the smug “not my child she’s at private school” brigade really don’t think think that fixes this issue. If anything they are even more spoon fed and protected - the teens I know that have never had a Saturday job or got on a bus are all at private school.

Yup. I was allowed to research lessons otherwise which was pre-internet so it was all looking in library books. And I think Wednesday might have been Uni.

The system went down the plug a long time ago. There was a programme on tv where unemployed were sent to jobs and I think only one, older, stayed the fortnight and was offered full time permanent. Others didn’t turn up, turned up late, left early, or worked a day or two then wouldn’t go back.
Used to be that Uni was for the academically inclined. It’s now decades since Universities introduced a remedial first year, to teach students what they should have learned in primary and secondary to make them fit for Uni.

Standards haven’t just dropped, they are non existent. Even 30 years ago, my sons’ teachers were an embarrassment. The ignorant don’t realise how ignorant they are. I had to teach mine after school every day because they were learning nothing…except various religions, which was all they got for homework. I had to teach them the three Rs

I’ve heard stories like these from all my friends who manage, right across the workplace! Meanwhile as a woman in her 50’s I am struggling to get shortlisted for jobs which I wouldn’t have even considered applying for 25 years ago. I worked 6 day weeks in my last FT job, often working 50 hours plus a week so I am still very robust and resilient, it’s v frustrating, I wonder if many are hired on their Instagram feed!. I have met some amazing young people though, I have to say but am hearing this more and more.
I should add that my daughters worst teacher to date was the 50 year old ‘most experienced teacher in the school’ so it doesn’t always figure..

Don’t get me started on employing people and in particular trainees - and don’t mention how much we now have to pay for the pleasure of these snowflakes. Nobody has any work experience anymore, and they cost us more than ever and bring less than ever to the table. It’s so frustrating- and expensive.