Trainees no longer ready for workplace

That's interesting, maybe London is different? My experience was nearer that of @GiveMeSpanakopita

Although, I'm not so sure about under 10, but we were certainly out doing stuff on our when we started at secondary school at 11. This was in the mid 70s

But that is precisely what's happened.

And 'kicking off' because they don't want to do what they've been asked to do or because they're bored has been reframed as 'emotionally dysregulated' which has the air of a psychiatric/psychological term to it when it means exactly the same thing - someone having a 'big/extreme' reaction which is perceived as disproportionate to the emotional stimuli or experiencing mood swings.

In which case, anyone losing their temper and ergo unable (or unwilling) to control their emotions is 'emotionally dysregulated'.

Domestically violent men, people involved in road-rage, someone screaming at a retail worker or being violent because their yoghurt was unavailable or they were denied a refund. Teenagers are emotionally dysregulated with their mood swings and slamming doors, storming off and shouting because they've been asked to put their clothes away for the 10th time and say that Mum/Dad is getting at them.

But 'emotional dysregulation' sounds like it's part of an illness or disorder which equals the person not being in control of it or able to be held responsible for it.

And that's where it's all got confused and unhelpful.

Ah well. Different strokes for different folks. I grew up in a northern city. We did have a perv expose himself to us once. I have a photographic memory of it so I suppose it must have been vaguely traumatic, I was about 8, I recall vividly he was wearing black and had this really sheepish grin. We chased him on our bikes shouting insults. He ran!

Nope.
It seems the teachers chose to use the "1001 Ways to micromanage children's behaviour" to handle the students, employing terms like "dysregulated".😆🙄

Pop psychology has no place in schools' administrative toolbox.

In terms of going to University Open Days, I think it's more a matter of being able to discuss the facilities/accommodation etc with DC and give a second opinion (if asked).
Obviously NOT to talk to tutors etc!!

I grew up in London in the late 1970s/80s and none of my friends were allowed to wander freely until about the age of 14 and then it was only to the shops.
There was quite a bit of stranger/danger about then

For all those mentioning parents involved in Uni matters, try recruiting with those who insist they should come along to interviews too

If anyone had told me about this before it happened I'd have thought they were joking, and their reactions when told no were no joke at all

Oh yes I agree with the overprotectedness. In fact earlier this week I was talking to a new young starter of mine about childhood and mentioned that in the 1970s we just used to roam free on the streets, it was me and my three friends on wonky bikes no helmets from morning til dusk in the summer hols. (OK not saying the lack of helmets was good but you know what I mean.) No structured play, no directions, but we created our own wonderful worlds that kept us busy and using our imaginations and social skills all day.

He could not get over the fact that we were out on the streets all day under age 10 without adults, and were using bikes without supervision. No mobiles to check in with parents, the rule was we came home at dusk. He could not comprehend it! Like, he literally kept getting stuck on it. He was agog. It was totally over his head.

Sad!

With regard to the posters talking about parents phoning university, I did this precisely once when DD was taken in to hospital suddenly and wouldn’t be able to make her meeting with the tutor next day - or any day soon as she had emergency surgery. I simply phoned to explain the situation and point out that she was in no fit state to phone herself. That is about the only circumstance it is fine for a parent to get involved!

It's not about whether you fail, everyone fails sometime. It's about how you handle failure

you clearly don't work in the legal profession. Failure is not allowed.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them arrogant. Maybe you could discuss matters sensibly without making personal attacks? I hope you are not a teacher.

It isn't hard for a school to have a sensible uniform policy and stop complaining to parents every time their child does something wrong. If teachers didn't have to spend all their time policing uniform and calling parents about every tiny transgression, it would free up a lot of time. Anyway my point is that if you micromanage someone (and their parents!) at school, they will need micromanaging at work.

And actually I don't think my view IS the majority view - if it were, it would be happening, quite obviously!

His "peers" who started on the scheme at the same time are all highly motivated, resilient, self reliant etc. Some of the online aptitude tests were to test those skills, i.e. "impossible" problems or online games where you can't get it right

Kobayashi Maru, the no-win situation. It's not about whether you fail, everyone fails sometime. It's about how you handle failure.

Childhood has stretched to about age 25 now I think.

I've made sure my ds knows about and experienced what actual work is and was delighted that he landed a local apprenticeship, jobs being hard to come by in these parts. However, this apprenticeship is a pisstake in so many ways; using 'workers' aged beyond 'youth' paid £6.40 to carry out tasks unsupervised. This Company expects their Apprentices to live on site in mouldy caravans (ds doesn't as we live nearby) with Stand By Your Bed inspections and also to be fully in charge at night if something goes wrong with the visitors (mostly schoolchildren on residentials!).

Now I've told ds that I can't interfere as I'm his Mum but I'm happy to advocate as a 'union-type' rep if things get too bad. He's now decided to go to Uni instead and he's getting his applications together for a seasonal job (at NMW) meanwhile.

It's not the current generation of young people who are useless, it's the generation before who are. I'm an older DM in my 60s now and the rights my generation have fought for have been so taken advantage of by the generation below me they've lost their meaning.

Yup my sibling went through this in big4, it’s rigorous, sibling now manages other people and uni students are patchier than the school leavers. Think the school leavers are just hungrier tbh.

I don’t mind if a teacher pulls me aside to tell me dd was being a pain (not happened yet). I’d rather know if she was being a sod at school so I could clarify my expectations around her being able to manage herself. Happy for the teacher to deal with it to their own satisfaction too. I expect her to develop some self discipline and be able to manage in a group environment, if a teacher feels the need to raise her behaviour I would take it seriously.

I think the problem is when parents don’t think it’s their job to reiterate appropriate behaviour or complain about their child being disciplined at all.

I completely agree, there is also the fact that in the big accountancy firms the apprentices still have college placements and have to pass exams and if they fail they are likely to be asked to leave. There is a 50% drop out/dismissal rate in year 1 in some firms, it is highly competitive and very stressful juggling office work and also college work.

Quite. And this is the reason teachers don't spell out to parents that their child has been a pain in the arse. Sensible parents will back the school up and reprimand the child too. Job done. The others will either take umbrage at the teacher for daring to find fault with the child's behaviour OR will complain that they were held back for a trivial inconsequential reason and wasted their time, which is exactly what you said, @Pusheen467 . Teachers CANNOT WIN.

i’m reading “The Status Game” by Will Storr and theres an interesting bit in there about a researcher going to 3 different ares of differing soci-economic status. What was interesting was that in the lower income neighbourhoods resilience was the focus but in the highest status socio-economic group children were basically taught to be both fragile and entitled.

She wasn't, she said whilst you might tell her to get over it, they have to share the information with both parents like you and those who are oblivious to how dramatic a reaction their children have had.

Your reaction is somewhat disproportionate, though.

What probably happened was that your DD's behaviour was totally out of proportion to the acutal issue she was perceiving, she no doubt WAS told in first a nice way and then a firm way to calm down, was probably disruptive to everyone around her, may well have pulled a member of SLT away from the 5 minutes that they had to shove their lunch down their throats and just generally caused chaos by letting her own emotions run away with her. The teachers will understand that this sometimes happen with young kids when they get dysregulated but they DO have a responsibilty to let parents know when things have got out of hand and the usual strategies to de-escalate the situation didn't work. Especially if this isn't the first time this has happened.

I wish teachers would spell it out to parents what a pain in the arse their child has actually been that day. Instead they have to be all nicey nicey to the parent and try to put it in a diplomatic way for fear of causing offence to the parent. Because half the time the reasons things like this happen is because parents have babied their children to within an inch of their lives and done everything for them. YOU may have just told your child to get over it but you'd be surprised at the number of parents who mollycoddle their child because they get in a strop at home if they want something doing for them.

My youngest recently started at university. I joined a parents' support group on fb for the university just to see what kind of ridiculous things some parents would need 'support' with and it didn't disappoint!

The whole group can be best categorised as an exercise in "tell me you failed to prepare your child for adulthood without telling me you failed to prepare your child for adulthood'.

I'd love to share some of the highlights... But there have been parents who have complained about the amount of self directed learning their child has to do and asking who parents should contact at university if they want to discuss how their child is getting on. And lots of parents fussing about little things that 18 year olds should be more than capable of doing.

Seemingly, these 18 year olds are capable of getting into university but not capable of booking a taxi, finding a local takeaway, using the laundrette, collecting a parcel from the designated area, sorting out a lost key, finding a part time job, reading a bus/train timetable, cooking a simple meal or even speaking to another adult.

Except that, i suspect most of them are but have never been given the chance.

My sister in law works in admissions at a different university and said that some of the things parents phone up about is ridiculous.

It wouldn't even occur to me to contact my children's universities or employer.

I very much agree with your sentiments.

"I only went to one open day when I was in 6th form and I went on my own"

Perhaps I'm older but I don't remember them as "open days", they were very much interviews.

I applied to UCL, Warwick and, I have no idea why, UEA. I can't remember if I applied elsewhere - it was so long ago (1983).

Yes, we got a tour of the campus, but each visit also included an interview. I can't imagine what they would have thought if I had brought along one of my parents for the interview (or something like an emotional support animal).