Trainees no longer ready for workplace

Just to strike a hopeful note, I’ve got a couple of trainees at the moment - early- mid 20s- and they’re bloody brilliant . Switched on, hard working and super efficient. So it’s not all doom and gloom!

Agree, having recently rejoiced at losing an office assistant (included reception type duties) who despite a v flexible WFH policy, dodged going into the office at every opportunity, and had the attitude of "I'm a graduate, I know how to do that now" - well yes, but we still needed a constant supply of milk & teabags, not to mention that she had no idea of purchasing at a good price.
However I did have a graduate trainee 30+ years ago who despite opening a mound oh post every day, had no concept of addressing an envelope, so not a new problem.

I could not agree with you more!!!

It's not just the 21-25 year olds. We had mental health awareness training at my place of work this year. What I really wanted to say is that I'm sick to the back teeth of listening to some of my direct reports whining about it. I couldn't care less about their self-diagnoses and I wish they'd just show up and do their work to a reasonable standard without expecting a medal for it.

Just refuse them. We now just use their own rhetoric against them: the department is not in a position to support an ECt at this time blah blah. They are more hassle than it’s worth and it’s worrying the state of education - as all will pass and gain QTS as ‘have to’ as already outlined on the thread…

In the last week alone on Mumsnet we have had a thread about complaining to the school about a replacement sticker because their child’s sticker fell off (like every sticker does eventually) and they were distraught. Several complaint threads about teachers speaking assertively or firmly or raising their voice to do so to their child after they were misbehaving or disrupting the learning of others, a thread about pulling a child out of school on account of the school damaging her “mental health” because the teacher wrote “good effort but try not to get distracted and finish the task at hand” (or something to that effect) in their exercise book, and a thread about a parent furious that their genius child was not in top set despite their child not performing at an ability level or achieving measurable, comparative assessment scores consistent with what the top third of the year group were achieving.

It’s all very bleak.

I've seen the opposite, where universities are desperate not to upset schools as they want to keep being able to place the students there.

Agree with this. I've been trainee supervising 10+ years and the last couple of years it's been really really bad. Very low resilience and won't do more than the minimum.

It was like this 20 years ago in financial services. Regardless of if they had come through a graduate or intern programme, or if through mummy or daddy’s network.

There are three that stick in my mind:

Intern programme - read the newspaper if not asked to do anything rather than getting off her arse to ask for work.

Daddy knew partner of department - spent his days looking bored and/or terrified.

Graduate summer intern programme - couldn’t be arsed to reply to emails after summer placement so when she didn’t get a 2:1 HR asked me to support her original offer despite her 2:2 and I rejected her given lack of manners

Yes I have noticed this change too, I have managed graduates for years (well educated types including oxbridge graduates). The shift has been fairly sudden and palpable over the last 6-7 years I’d say (so pre-Covid).

I’d say it’s multi-faceted.

Gen Z are far less likely to have had an unskilled job as a young teen where you learn so many life skills, confidence and self discipline/motivation. My friends had paper rounds, worked for peanuts in the local chemist/bakery/ pub doing grunt work. Fewer kids have these jobs now- they can actually be harder to come by and parents less likely to encourage them to work/ be independent. I’ve noticed the difference in CVs not having these types of jobs listed.

Declining use of the telephone and conversations in the community. You develop a lot of confidence and communication skills answering the phone and speaking to people out and about. I remember holding conversations with aunty who called to speak to my mum and answered the phone in low paid jobs as a teen. Now people just text/ WhatsApp. People spoke to each other more often when mobile phones didn’t exist, families in pubs/ on trains whatever. Now everyone is glued to phone. Social and communication skills like these are super important for developing self awareness/ confidence/ independence etc

Kids are very aware how much worse their standard of living will be compared to their parents and it’s demoralising. A teacher actually told my nephew he’d never get a mortgage or own a house (this was a few years ago now). I thought that was awful - basically stamped out his aspirations!

Permissive parenting/ overly protective parenting that has backfired because kids are not developing the independence or self discipline skills they need. I’m always surprised by how invested parents are on the Oxbridge threads on here. It’s weird and stifling to be so involved- young people going to university need freedom to grow. These parents are not doing them any favours.

I actually feel sorry for young people today. They have not been given the rich opportunities to grow and develop that we were, too many stay in their comfort zone. It is our generation (X and millennials) that have done this to them, thinking we were being kind and supportive, but really we have set them up to fail. Hopefully they will learn and grow but it could be more painful than it needed to be.

My kids are still young and I’ve been very mindful about these challenges and am trying to get them out of their comfort zone as much as possible but it is difficult in today’s society, where the opportunities are fewer.

How I agree
I’m not a teacher but I’ve had trainees working with me who

1. Won’t call our patients in ( a major part of their job. It’s literally standing at the door and asking for ‘john smith’- who is there for an appointment and knows he’s about to be called in And I’ve already said. Hes sat on the black chair / glasses and a beard eg). because ‘anxiety’

i think back to my own training in the early 1990’s and so many things current trainees do just would not be tolerated - at all.

I agree with this and have witnessed it myself, as has DH and friends from different sectors. The quality of young people leaving school has deteriorated so much in work terms. I do feel sorry for some that they feel so disenfranchised but all I see in others is massive entitlement. I know all the arguments in their defence and that they feel very hard done by but some really don't do themselves any favours.

Im in the legal profession as well. I think the main problem is a lack of personal responsibility. There’s a lot of “no one told me” and other excuses and they react really badly to the suggestion that they look things up for themselves/take feedback on board and try to improve etc.

I get your point about things changing but I think the problem is that the ones coming in aren’t fit for current workplaces. Maybe things will change in the future and they will build a workplace or work environment to suit their needs, but there’s definitely a culture clash in the interim.

Oh yes....
My DP runs a small company with a few fellow colleagues. They take on a couple of apprentices every year at degree level. They've noticed a difference in attitude in recent years.

My DP is incredulous at the attitude - the latest 2 came in late with no warning or explanation, extended lunches, go home early Friday afternoon, on mobile phone alot, continual booking of appointments for hair/car/even reflexolgy and Gym PT session.

Lack of ability to be professional when writing emails or how yo act in a meeting with clients etc.
One was asked to leave. The other is being very closing mentored.

‘Partly’ - I hope the other parts are the parent and young person themselves.

Why would you lower the standards of what is expected? If they can’t manage a certain number of lesson plans etc, they are failed.

I am so tired of people pulling the mental health card, because it undermines things for people who actually do genuinely struggle with mental health issues. Asked someone to send a standard email asking a customer to confirm their order as part of their job and they couldn't because "mental health" 🙄

Schools spoonfeed young people. It's not surprising they are not ready for the real world.

It is Gen Z. They are famous for it.
www.newsweek.com/gen-z-says-theyre-laziest-generation-1915450

We've had this conversation a lot (law). We do find that trainees are now putting in place boundaries we never would have dreamt of.

That said, remember the generation before ours never had the same levels of gender equality and women (and men) didn't have maternity benefit or flexible working.

Maybe in the same way we fought for better gender equality, the generation after ours will right our wrongs in terms of work life balance? Maybe that's a good thing? It would certainly appear so given the mental health and burn out issues suffered in the modern workplace.

Yes there will always be people who take the piss (eye drops are not a valid reason to come in late) but as a general rule, I think we have a lot to learn from Gen X / Alpha.

It's the same in the law. I'm horrified tbh at the calibre of young trainees nowadays. God knows what will happen to this country in the future.

Completely agree with you OP. Our trainees are absolutely shocking. One didn’t even turn up today! The amount of concessions and extenuating circumstances and extensions they need is perplexing. This is what happens when children aren’t allowed to fail or have any consequences or accountability for anything. They are utterly shocked when they hit the real world and realise that people don’t have time for nonsense. Should have formed the habits earlier on when the sanctions were low stakes.

Just look at the angry replies in response to people posting on threads that it should be a normal expectation for kids to bring a pen to school each day. The absolute bare minimum most basic task each day and there’s so much pushback on it. Habit forming and experiencing cause and effect make competent adults but there’s no appetite to make this happen. The amount of abuse teachers face when trying to instil even a small amount of either discipline or self-discipline in students is ridiculous.

It’s happening in all industries though. My friend runs a large trade apprenticeship scheme for youngsters wanting to learn handywork, construction, trades etc. and he said he cannot take his eye off them for a second, they can’t do any task independently, call in sick all the time, do the bare minimum and can’t be trusted to do the job well. He said they are completely different to the school leavers 15 years ago.

Sadly, I've had the same experiences with student nurses. It's a worrying trend in many areas.

I'm doing a business admin apprenticeship at my workplace (I'm mid forties). I must admit I was shocked at some of the other apprentices I see on the monthly live sessions.

There are a couple that are brilliant and I'd employ them tomorrow. There are a couple that are ok but a wee bit lackluster.

The rest of them are hopeless wet rags. Excuses for everything, sit there silently unless specifically called on, poor comprehension and speaking skills, cameras off all or majority of the time.

Honestly I find it depressing.