Trainees no longer ready for workplace

That’s really surprising. I work in a professional services firm where we have a large number of trainees and they’re fantastic. Our current one and the one we had before him are particularly excellent - really hard working, enthusiastic and pleasant. They also get really involved in the culture of the firm and do a lot of our ESG work.

I’m particularly impressed because their university experience was so affected by covid, and some of them did their summer placements entirely online.

Is there possibly a culture issue at your firm? Are they feeling demotivated, or is something depressing morale? I can’t believe we’ve just been consistently lucky over the last few years so if most of yours are really not getting on, it could be a problem with your workplace instead.

It's not just the younger age group. I work with professionals mainly aged 45-60 on fixed-term projects and since the pandemic there's been a very noticeable increase in the number who think they can log off at 4pm every day and 1pm on Fridays, clock in late, "need" afternoons off to walk the dog, moan about the smallest request to collate admin, can't meet deadlines, take days to reply to email etc. Most are OK and this is a small minority but we've definitely noticed it in my office!

You do all know that today's 20-year-olds will be reaching their prime during a period of incredible growth? The glitches in sustainable energy will have been sorted out by then, facilitating all kinds of invention & development that's currently too power-hungry to pursue; AI will be coming of age, bringing sci-fi levels of possibility (and problems, sure: very able humans will be earning very enviable amounts to help guide this new growth).

I am genuinely sorry I'm going to miss all this; it's going to be brilliant. Your young people are losing their places at the start of this phase, while the smaller number with common sense, ability and vision are already flying.

Stop preaching doom and gloom. Things are actually better (in general) than they've ever been, and the near future's going to be fucking amazing. These kids need to get their thumbs out of their mouths and start using their brains.

I agree that something seems to have got lost during their development - but, be fair, the previous generations that wrought big social & economic changes had survived wars, plagues and famines among other disasters. Historically and realistically, it's not normal to live a totally easy life. I just hope your 'trainees' feel hard enough done by, fast enough, to decide they need to change the world.

It's certainly going to be interesting when the only teachers left are the 'I can't be expected to plan and ooh my mental health' types meet the indulged children who never heard no, have parental diagnoses and ooh my mental health issues.

This is a Gen Z thing! It's totally a thing. They're all really aware of their boundaries and their mental health. Which I sort of admire, but makes them a bloody nightmare in the workplace!!

Those who were at university or 6th form during COVID are pretty stunted in their development.

If you started university in 2019, you only got to spend a few months on campus before the move to online learning. Not having to leave your bedroom to get a degree wasn't good. It bred a sense of passivity, that someone else makes things happen and I can participate as and when I feel like it.

All the usual life experiences that would have built competence and resilience in this period were skipped - part-time jobs, organising student events, teenage romances that end in heartbreak...

Obviously student mental health was a priority during COVID, but it led to easier assessment measures. It means this generation doesn't have a true sense of what good work actually looks like.

People who went through university before them and are now their supervisors in the workplace expect more from them, because their own university experience was more rigorous.

I love this! They will stand out and go far!

I'm with you OP and I'm nodding along at quite a lot of the replies.

We had some young trainees last year and we let them all go. They were unmanageable.

It was desk work and they'd be sat at their desk playing on the phones. When told to put their phones away until break time, we had tears, attitude, excuses , answering back ("but but but...").

They were extremely reluctant to answer the phone (part of their job ) and had to be explicitly told each time "can you answer the phone please ?".

When drafting a formal letter to a prospective client , they honestly thought "Hey John" was an acceptable start.

Absence constantly. Lateness (everyone else managed to get in on time).

They had no initiative, no proactiveness and no effort.

I used to take trainees, slightly different field. I had some very very good, hardworking, thoughtful trainees. I met some incredible young people. But .... In more recent years I also had an increasing number of trainees who thought they knew it all, and who were so cocky and entitled. One in particular was so arrogant I hated coming to work and having to supervise her. She couldn't take feedback and liked to try and supervise me (2 weeks in timber trainee post!) instead of the other way around...

It was sooo irritating having young 20somethings who know nothing about the job, coming into the workplace and thinking they know better than people who've worked there 20 years. I am all up for fresh ideas and bringing new perspectives etc... but not entitled arrogance.

And don't get me started on the lectures about pronouns and trans this and that. One of my more recent trainees was obsessed with trying to persuade me that transwomen are women and there are no differences and we shouldn't say there are (which by the way has nothing to do with the job she was supposed to be there to do...) She was convinced transwomen should compete against biological women in running, swimming etc.. in elite sport because apparently that's fair and she burst into tears when I said I didn't agree but respect her opinion. Apparently that was deeply offensive 🤷 When I dared suggest that outside her college friends there are people with lots of different views about transwomen and their participation in elite sport, and not all agree with her, she reported me to her college for.not being socially progressive🤷 I couldn't care less what her views on transwomen were. I thought it was good she was passionate and had some strong opinions, but don't assume at 20yrs old you are right and everyone else is wrong and we should all think like you 😡

Agree - the trainees/ graduates that join my organisation are the same. Think they are entitled to training/ opportunities that have taken others 14 years to achieve, they barely do the basic training for their roles,
they ask for countless paid well-being hours and show no respect to the skills/ experience of more senior staff. And they wear crop tops to the office! They behave like they are at uni and don’t have the awareness to observe and learn the behaviour needed for a professional workplace.

Hmm I think our place has had a mixed experience. Fast streamers are still high calibre (civil service). But the direct EO entrants have been hit and miss.

One bloke said he had excellent excel skills (we weren't allowed to test that). When he presented me with a table of numbers I asked him to do a further column showing the cash difference and the percentage. He said he didn't know how to do that ....... Luckily he took umbrage at us not allowing him to do a specific course and found another job in the private sector.

'm a teacher with 24 years' experience. I no longer discipline kids like I used to it,'s not worth the nasty email I'll get from their parents.

it’s not the teachers being soft, it’s the parents sending the nasty emails that prevents the children being set appropriate boundaries at school. Every child that is rude and disruptive has a parent standing behind them refusing to believe staff and accusing the school of discrimination or similar. Im not surprised teachers give up and then these children grow and are supposed to start work? Crazy days.

I teach in HE and I have some fabulous students - great work ethic, professional attitude, good team working skills, problem solving, excellent communication skills, leadership, can meet deadlines and fulfil a brief, and lovely people to boot. Don't write off this age group in its entirety.

I don’t doubt you OP. I’ve seen the same, albeit in a different industry - but one that requires commitment too. It’s scary to think how the world will look in 20 years.

Yup and I’d I hear ‘my mental health’ with no understanding or explanation of what that actually means.

it’s is not feeling a bit sad for a few hours because you were told your aren’t bloody amazing at everything and didn’t like it x

It’s a combination of several things I think:

—the fashion for more permissive parenting (eg parents bending over backwards not to use the word “no” to their kids) causing a huge sense of entitlement;
— also in parenting: kids being scheduled within an inch of their lives, barely having access to free play, etc, which is known to build resilience and independence;
— overloaded school curricula and crumbling public services = teachers have no time to focus on building social/life skills;
— points-driven, extrinsic model of praise and reward at school conditions children to believe that everything must be rewarded instantly and isn’t worth doing in and of itself.
— massive crises (cost of living, environmental, etc) resulting in a large-scale disillusionment in institutions, hierarchies, etc (totally understandable IMO - I sure as hell don’t envy young people coming of age in this shit-show);
— Covid depriving Gen Z of formative developmental experiences;
— Social media fuelling a massive MH crisis among those exposed to it too early (which is the vast majority of children, judging by Ofcom stats).

With all of the above, it’s no wonder this generation of young workers have such little resilience and lack such basic skills.

Just to add, I have had my own challenges with MH. As in being prescribed 40mg of propranolol 3 x per day when almost paralysed by the fear of messing something up (which I didn’t do, I just had some irrational fear of doing). But I have to keep going to keep paying the mortgage down and prevent my only asset from being seized, in the hope of being able to retire somewhat peacefully at 70 years old.

I do want to thank all you PPs for your anecdotes, though. They're really making me laugh!

When I worked with uni students I had a mildly dyslexic student asking me to write him a note to explain he had missed his deadline for another lecturer due to his dyslexia. When I talked to him he had been staying up regularly into the small hours watching manga films. I didn’t give write him his note. I was always ready to help struggling students but there were some who wanted a free pass too frequently. This became quite a trend with some students and lecturers would be very pressured to be lenient. The hard working students who met deadlines were often resentful.

As a pupil, we had some awful awful teacher trainees come in. Some had no control over the class, able to teach.

I'm the generation before yours. We didn't fight for equality between the sexes by crying when interviewers asked us about our plans to have children (because we'd never have got a job, so fight lost before it started). We got equal pay laws and maternity rights through hard-nosed political campaigning and co-ordinated strikes.

This takes application, strategy, dedication, co-operation and it can only stand a chance of success if you've already proved your value to employers. Otherwise, they'd have quite reasonably said "See? We told you women aren't cut out for the workplace. They simply can't deliver, bless them!"

I'm sure Gen Alpha have some very good points to make about work/life balance and futile rigidity. Few of them seem to be showing much promise of the ability to make these points effectively, starting with the obvious need to demonstrate that business can be satisfactorily carried out while working flexibly. In fact, their parents are the generation proving that.

Simply demanding the flexibility and pay cheque, without delivering the work, has a giant flaw as an argument. And I fail to see how people who can't handle being told "no" could hope to negotiate radical changes.

As it happens, I'm in favour of a proper Universal Basic Income - which sounds like it would suit these kids, but it doesn't look like they're going to develop the skills to sort it out! And even if their mums & dads manage to pull it off, they'll probably still be whining that they don't get paid enough for doing nothing ... 🙄

YANBU - we have a secondary trainee who is the same! In a shortage subject and seems like the uni is doing everything not to fail them. Teaching is really tough and I do think some reform of workload etc would be welcome, but if you can't cope with single-digit teaching hours a week when you're given resources to use... It does seem unreasonably soft and calling in last minute setting no cover has a big impact on other staff who have to step in to teach unexpectedly

Tbh I can see both sides to this.

Yes younger generations are more entitled. Tbh I have that attitude to some degree in a side job. The reason being if you don’t want me then fire me. I’m not that bothered if your paying me barely minimum wage when I have 10 years experience and a masters. I can get another job tomorrow.

But equally the mental health and resilience of youngsters at the moment is awful. I’m not sure whether to blame Covid, the general zeitgeist (hopelessness of wages, cost of living, wars, climate change, you name it), or previous upbringing ethos.

I was listening to a random podcast and this head teacher came on and said we have upbringing and education completely the wrong way around. We gentle parent children. Let them explore self learning, think what they want, say what they want, make all their own choices and then as adults we turn around and say no you can’t say what you want, can’t think what you want, do what you want etc. It’s literally the completely wrong way round. And I think I agree with her tbh.

I had a very similar experience in my last job (not education). I’d say you’re lucky if they even turn up…but actually the day was easier if they didn’t.

Another saying it’s not just in teaching and other professions . I work with several self employed trades people who are overwhelmed with work. All have tried taking on apprentices ( it’s supposedly hard to get an apprenticeship around here ) and all have ended up letting them go for the same reasons quoted above.

eg sick every Monday , arrive late, leave early, insist on lunch at 12 even if they are in the middle of a job, no initiative, not willing to do the grunt work, won’t take instruction, argue back in front of customers, roll their eyes, sulk.