Trainees no longer ready for workplace

There were hopeless trainees when I was a PGCE student 15 years ago. Some who regularly turned up hungover or having been out all night, ones who were far too mentally fragile for the job etc. they tend to drop out, though?

Also if we took more than a total of 2 weeks sick leave throughout the year, you had to repeat a placement. Is that not still the case?

Not true for everyone of course but weaponised incompetence is a tool of choice for the trainees I have worked with in recent years. They will play dumb and ask stupid questions so the more experienced around them jump in to help with prep, resources etc etc etc. They could do it all without help but why show you a draft email to a parent to make sure it is OK of they can bombard you with email after email of questions until you write it for them and they press send- remembering to CC management of course. Or when they add one slide to your series of lessons and send it out to all colleagues and again CC in management.

I know what you mean but there are reasons for it. Whereas 25 years ago most teens would have had Saturday job, employers are pretty much unable to give jobs to teens now. Most local authorities have stipulations for businesses that mean it’s basically pointless and dangerous to employ a teen over an 18year old. Before 16 for instance , our local authority wouldn’t even allow them to boil a kettle. Allowing them to do so could leave you with a hefty fine. Of course plenty of people risk it, but spot checks mean it’s a risk.
So adults are entering the workplace with zero experience.

We’ve noticed this too with our recent newly qualified nurses. They can’t take any feedback without accusing us of bullying. They don’t turn up to mandatory training, or turn up late. They go off sick at every opportunity. They generally just can’t cope and want hand holding.

They don’t seem to realise how much time and effort it takes to organise their rotas, re-book training, arrange sickness meetings that they don’t turn up to, devise action plans etc, whilst we’re all trying to do our jobs as well. It’s exhausting.

Sadly if you are in teaching you are mentoring your future boss when they leapfrog to SLT as they have all the buzzwords and l no interest in actually planning or teaching... and they are cheap!

We have student physios on placement, and apart from 1 terrible one, in 15 years of having them they have varied between adequate and exceptional, with most coming under heading of 'good'. I do find that the ones who are slightly older (mid twenties upwards) are better than the ones who went to uni straight out of school. Having had a job or other life experience seems to make them better at time management, communication with patients, problem solving.

Are your trainees all very young?

I think this is an understatement.
I cannot stand this part of society.

They will soon have a shock when faced with a difficult primary class of disobedient children. That's the reality. But I do agree.There doesn't seem to be that grit and sense of responsibility. How will they cope with the long hours, the exhaustion, lesson planning. You need to be tough to be a teacher, especially in today's climate.

My DP runs his own business and has employed lots of trainees. Some have been amazing and some quite staggering!

One girl didn’t want to do a task because she said it was boring. Another thought it was perfectly acceptable to charge a coffee to expenses bought on route to work.

Someone else asked for a pay rise shortly after joining and was advised pay would be reviewed at the annual review. Helping out at an exhibition the following day with my DP her boss and other colleagues, she was moody and grumpy and not engaged the whole day. Thankfully she left shortly after however was in touch recently to see if DP’s company had any vacancies….

When I was young and starting out in a work, I did what I was told and worked as hard as I could. I still do!

The area is work in employees quite a few 18 to early 20's and a great many of them are like this! Do as little work as possible, know all their rights but not their responsibilities! Don't want to do any of the dirty work. It can be really unfair on the other staff who have to work with them.

I know a woman in her late 40s who has just qualified as BA cabin crew. They are actively taking on older people. Kids grown up, no maternity leave, good work ethic and not going to take any nonsense.

Well if they manage to qualify they'll get a shock in their ECT year!

Same re the leches and inappropriate relationships!! It was relatively common and not really talked about!

We have lots of trainees (solicitors) and they've all been brilliant. Extremely hard working and quick to learn.

We've noticed this too, not just students/trainees though. I find people just don't put as much effort in anymore, perfectly capable of doing their job at a bare minimum level but won't go the extra mile. I think it's because now it's difficult to let people go from a job, which is great that we have more rights etc, but they know they don't actually have to work hard. It's really disheartening. I work in paediatric nursing & some people don't even try to be nice to the kids, obviously they don't have to as part of their job but it's really poor imo.

God yes, this is so true.
People have become…I don’t know what.
Even this morning at the traffic lights. They changed to green and within less than a second the car in front of me was beeping their horn at the first car. Impatient, selfish, lazy, self indulgent, entitled…that is what society is turning into. So sad.

On a side note, and totally unrelated, I’m currently watching a 1997 episode of Blind Date on YouTube, and the show and the adverts are almost like they’re from another lifetime. Making me pine for the good old days. I’m officially old!

I've experienced that too, but it was some years ago and from people who were definitely old enough to know what pro rata meant. That's not down to age (I don't think)!

I understand the kids had it rough during the pandemic, I really do. But the sort of behaviour we see sometimes from the 18-25 age group has been embarrassing for some time now, beyond the point where it can all be put down to covid

I agree covid isn't the only explanation. But what is? Is it the fact that schools are so strict over stupid things and the kids don't learn initiative unless they learn it elsewhere? I know people like to complain it's the parents, and I think in some cases that complaint is justified (I am definitely guilty of being a helicopter mother) but it's not just that. A mix of factors I guess. But as mentioned above, our trainees are really good.

Imvho, the bad manners and laziness of new trainees is mirrored by the bad manners and laziness of a lot of employers these days. I’ve heard so many people complain that employers often don’t even bother to acknowledge applications any more, or will even interview people then not bother to get back to them. It seems to me, the whole of society feels it is far too busy and self-important, not just young people. As for “customer service” - only if you think going round in circles with AI is serving anyone at all…

I'd say the same. I think most of the trainees in my firm are excellent. Not sure they'd have selected me - the bar is much higher now in my view.

So true. Half of my teachers were horrible, abusive (one was actually later sent to prison for historical physical and sexual abuse) and letchy.

One teacher had an affair with a 15yo student whom he later married and had children with (he wasn’t fired - this was the 80’s!)

I manage a learning and development dept. We've had people on admin apprenticeships, and while a few have been great, we've also had a few that were disastrous. Parents ringing in "sick" for them. All kinds of excuses for being late or not coming in, from my grandma's cat died (staff member was not a carer for said grandma, otherwise that would have been understandable they needed to help deal with that), my sister spent too long in the shower, I was up late doing my assignment for college and I'm tired, twisted my ankle and can't walk 5 mins to the bus stop, parents' car in the garage and can't possibly use public transport because ew buses.

I can absolutely work with an apprentice or placement student that has a steep learning curve to go on but wants to learn. But I'm afraid some of them have been taught no kind of work ethic, and are lazy, they have no problem solving skills, the slightest thing goes wrong and they can't cope. They've had parents and teachers who have made excuses for poor behaviour at every turn and never challenged them. This is borne out by the angry phone calls we have had from parents when their precious has had a mild talking to because they messed something up or did something they shouldn't, like take a 2hr lunch to go shopping to buy a prom outfit, because "when else can I go, the shops aren't open after work and I don't go into town at weekends". The team leader had taken the apprentice aside and said that wasn't acceptable and asked them to make the time up over the next couple of days. They dissolved in tears and went home and didn't come in the next day because too anxious, mum phoned and carried on as if someone had physically assaulted them.

I understand the kids had it rough during the pandemic, I really do. But the sort of behaviour we see sometimes from the 18-25 age group has been embarrassing for some time now, beyond the point where it can all be put down to covid.

I've noticed this too in my area of work too. Not all but some act like they're doing you a favour turning up and have an immediate list of things they don't want to do or be expected to do.

We recently had a newly qualified too who seemed at first to be great, really enthusiastic and personable then very quickly lots of last-minute requests to WFH or take leave. At the end of the first month they complained they hadn't been paid correctly and it transpired they didn't know what pro-rata meant and hadn't bothered to ask or look it up so thought they were going to get paid full-time for working part-time. Then seemed to think they were being magnanimous by saying they weren't blaming anyone but going forward, they recommended it should be made clearer on the job spec that you wouldn't get FT pay for PT work.

They 'worked' but didn't actually do much for 2 months then put their notice in, then withdrew it. Then put it in again and were arguing that they wanted to take A/L for all of their notice period because they had x amounts of hours entitlement when the x amount of hours was their entitlement for the year and they were only working a few months and had already taken a lot of leave.

We let them go early in the end, we just wanted rid.

To be fair, we've always had crap teachers. One of my sons is a teacher and he's often shocked when I tell him what some of my teachers used to be like (drunk in class, ogling the girls, physical punishment, rolling the TV & video in, putting on a film and leaving us to it). It seems to me like standards are much higher now. The PGCE course he did, he told me a bit about what he was learning and I was impressed by how stringent the standards and the various education theories he learned how to apply. So I think the standard is probably better than it was in the 70s & 80s!

On the quality of graduates in general, I think the Covid lockdowns played a big role. A lot of these kids are joining the workplace never having had the full student experience of physically socialising and learning and all the communication skills that can be gleaned from that. So socially, it's more akin to getting a bunch of school leavers. I think that's a big part of it.

As an ex teacher, its not the fault of the teachers but of a system that has restorative justice and follows fools like paul dix.
Throw in inadequate management and governments past and present that want to undermine teachers and actually reduce the ability of students whilst at the same time backing gobby parents (and posters on SM) that complain when teachers try and sanction pupils for not doing the work this is what you get.