Trainees no longer ready for workplace

I graduated from school in 1999 and uni in 2006. All I was ever told by careers advisors was get a good degree and it's a stepping stone to middle management.

That definitely was NOT the case!

It is not authoritarian to expect an employee to turn up for work at the contracted time, and stay until the contracted time. And not take multiple sick days for petty reasons.
Where there is a flexible working scheme in place, it is not unreasonable or authoritarian to expect employees to make up their time.
Senior staff can have 'unofficial' flexitime where they just work the hours needed to get the work done. This is not appropriate for junior staff, let alone trainees.
Hierarchy is a real thing. Get over it.

You have to be in the workplace to collaborate and cooperate. WFH (or being off sick) does not lend itself to collaboration, despite the existence of MS Teams.

I agree that harsh discipline has no place in the modern workplace. But your manager pointing out where you have gone wrong, explaining you are falling short of required standards, and asking you to improve, is not 'harsh discipline'.

Because work is, well, work. It is not fun, or leisure, or a student group project.
Work is often boring and repetitive and no fun. That is why it is called work.

I think a large part of it is a culture shift that's still in progress.
Once upon a time, not that long ago, if you were going to have a responsible job, you were a white man probably of a particular background. Expectations and norms were very clear - you wore a suit, you shook hands, you turned up on time - these were more than likely instilled in you by your private school. You very quickly picked up the culture and the boundaries and you stuck to them, to get ahead.
Now the working world is far more open, but the norms aren't as clear. I research medical training and older doctors keep complaining about a 'lack of professionalism' in younger trainees, but when you delve deeper it's clear that the older doctors had very rigid expectations explicitly taught to them and enforced at all costs, whereas newer doctors don't have that. The trainees are trying to learn a very difficult job while also navigating and very unclear and confusing culture that is often contradictory - for example they are told their workplaces are inclusive and welcoming and yet they see certain people being treated differently (usually by older doctors who had racism and sexism built into their training). They are assured that their work life balance is important while also being told they can't take time off for a sibling's wedding.
If there's a very dominant culture (white men) then it's pretty easy to pass that culture on, and to exclude people who don't fit it. Things should open up but if there isn't clarity around what's expected, or there are no real role models, then of course younger people get lost. Mixed messages (women are 'valued', but no women get promoted) also don't help.

Babysitting I expect to provide for our highly paid grad trainees:

• help navigating the internal systems when new
• a buddy to provide ongoing help with scheduling, culture, random stuff
• training (expensive in our case)
• a named mentor a couple of levels up to provide them with regular guidance and be a support
• a small community of peers from different practices in the business to help build their network and learn
• peers to help review their work
• standards/processes etc to follow to help get it right first time (or more realistically - second time)
• encouragement to give their own ideas and thoughts, participate in activities etc

Babysitting I don't expect to provide:

• chasing to turn up on time
• chasing because they have simply not turned up and have failed to inform anyone
• work simply not done or not completed
• going on leave without a handover
• letting down clients in basic ways (eg not attending meetings or not attending on time, failing to follow up etc)
• trying to instill a basic work ethic (futile usually - if they don't have it by this age the damage is often done)
• general chasing on everything due to lack of aforesaid work ethic and proactivity

And by god there are some spectacularly shite managers and team leads and wannabes out there.

That's certainly true!

I've seen the same in professional services over the past few years and my contacts elsewhere say the same. So I don't think you are exaggerating at all.

It's not to say that alll trainees/grads are like this, but a good number of them are that it is very noticeable.

A lot our newbies are very clever and talented but they do need some looking after because they've been babysat by their parents. That said, that's what you do with newbies, probationers and trainees.

And by god there are some spectacularly shite managers and team leads and wannabes out there.

It's book 4 in the Bobiverse universe - Heaven's River, best on Audible. But also, only worth a read if you love a mix of comedic and hard SF. Book 1 is about someone whose mind gets uploaded to a replicating spaceship and makes clones of himself. Book 4 is a long way to go for the idea!

(the dilemma in the book is whether to interfere or not with a species that is sliding backwards because no one has to think anymore to have a nice life)

Absolutely agree with you, OP. It's shocking, very little work ethic

Agree with this — I lightly poke fun at my boomer parents on occasion (eg when they ask why I can’t simply buy a bigger house, get a different job, etc), but the whole eVeRyThInG’s tHe bOoMeRs’ fAuLT narrative — from working practices to climate change — is a ridiculous oversimplification.

Hear hear.

This is all really interesting. I work with young people, not a teacher, and we do work on developing resilience etc.
I do want to use DS1 (nearly 17) as an example though.
He has diagnosed and medicated ADHD, anxiety and depression. He's also severely dyslexic.
He left school in the summer after passing 1/4 highers (Scotland).
He's now at college and also working 3 days a week.
He has to leave the house at 6 to make a hours bus journey and start work at 7.
He works in a field where it's hard to keep staff, but because he's hardworking and reliable, and wants to work in this field, he's being treated very well. This means that when he does have medical appointments etc, his work are flexible.
So the future is bright for those young people who do work hard.
He's also very negative about the fellow students on his college course!

Its nothing to do with authoritarianism. In fact it was the boomer generation was the generation which did away with many hierarchies in the workplace, made first names at all levels standard, sharing of physical space between levels and promoted more collaborative work practices.

Its about a change in development patterns which has resulted in larger numbers of young people being poorly prepared before they even reach the workplace.

I disagree about Covid being the cause due to loss of the student experience. We were seeing the problems highlighted before Covid. If by the age of 18 a student doesn't have experience of physically socialising, managing their own work and decent communication skills then they have been failed by their parents and possibly the schools.

This generation is the first generation brought up (in the UK and much of western society) with the combination of ultra protectiveness in the real world whilst also exposed to unmanaged social media throughout most of their development. That unmanaged social media which promotes a focus on the self rather than the community, which profits from driving fear and division and "doctor google" promoting self diagnosis of MH conditions.

I agree there have always been a proportion of crap teachers, just as there is a proportion of crap performers in every job. I think that is separate from the development issues we see in young adults.

I work in horticulture in the private sector and was asked by a client to take on a young woman of 23 to work alongside me. She was very agreeable, well-educated with a 1st in her degree. We got on well and I liked her but she knew absolutely nothing about horticulture (she thought squashes grew underground, like potatoes). To start with she was also seriously lazy and would text to tell me she was 'letting myself sleep until 1pm and will come in after lunch'. Whatever, I wasn't paying her, but I couldn't let her carry on like that. If she complained, after an hour of work, of being tired my response would be 'go and lie down then' and she'd find herself a pile of leaves and lie in it until she got cold.

I encouraged, challenged and sometimes cajoled her into doing some meaningful work and bit by bit she improved. There was a lot of 'Come on, put your phone away and get your boots on, there's a lot to do today'. Then we had that really cold spell in 2018, the Beast from the East, and the challenge was to turn up to work with everyone else and just get on with the job. The ground was frozen so we were working in woodland at that point. Some days were -10C, with a wind that made it feel a lot colder, so simply too cold to stand around, you had to keep moving or freeze. But during that time she changed and rose to the challenge with a cheerfulness that I was glad to see. She'd turn up wearing six layers and get stuck in. In return I made sure we had a hot lunch, which we heated and ate outside, so it became an adventure of sorts. Fortunately her ego was big enough that the experience did her good and she was proud of herself for getting through the tough part, as I was proud of her for trying. This was one person and it was really hard work to start with. I can't imagine that process being constant.

Has it ever occurred to some adults that authoritarian working styles, commonly associated with boomers, may be ineffective? Instead of harsh discipline, we should focus on collaboration and cooperation. Just because we stood in a corner as children and it didn’t seem to harm us doesn’t mean it’s the best approach..🙄

Boomerness is being rejected by the younger cohorts. Get over it.

Its also woth noting that our graduate apprenticeship scheme rarely has problems with low motivation, poor levels of independence - possibly because as @taxguru says - they have to go through even more hoops than the grads to make the grade and win a place.

Gosh I wish they taught like this at my daughter's (very academic) school. She's not as academic and struggles with the university type learning style of it all!!
I think she'd get really good GCSEs if she knew exactly what to write and simply had to learn it

We also take "brightest and best" graduates in terms of the overall graduate pool. We need grads who are motivated and self reliant and can work independently, interact with clients etc. We still get good grads but increasingly we see similar problems even with academically high quality graduates. They are far from the majority but considering what we pay and the calibre we shouldn't see this at all.

We run residential graduate "boot camps" - several weeks long, expensive to deliver but we invest a lot in our people. Accommodation is in 4* hotels or similar and the partner/MD levels who give up their time to act as faculty use teh same room types as the trainees. We have had parents phone the training leads to complain that PFB's hotel room isn't good enough, they don't like the food, they need to start the day later (because walking downstairs in time for 9.00 is not a reasonable expectation). Also parents complaining that PFB had been out drinking in the evening and we hadn't arranged transport back (its not a jail, if the grads want to socialise in the evenings they are free to so do).
We have endless self diagnosed MH conditions - despite the fact that we offer extremely good health cover including extensive MH cover.

Even ten years ago this sort of thing was so rare that it would result in an investigation to find out what if something abnormal had happened. Now the training team just roll their eyes at yet another one.

We have had to change the content of the boot camp not just to reflect business and technology change but to add more on basic "life skills". We always had an element of comms training - not everyone comes with the confidence and experience associated with a privileged upbringing. However that was factual, practical training to bring everyone up to a similar comms and confidence level, not things like "come to the class with your kit" or "make sure you arrive on time".

Our grad recruitment team do now flag up applicants who can show previous work experience/long term volunteering experience (not gap yaar voluntourism) whilst at school and university as a big plus point. It seems to correllate well with the right attitude and independence in the workplace.

I don't know if its over protectiveness in upbringing or SM - I do think both are big factors, especially for self diagnosed MH conditions which are of the type where "just get on with it" is actually the best evidence based advice.

I think it depends on the type of job. Min wage work often attracts those with minimum or no qualifications, poor work ethic, and with the younger generation I am just seeing a lot of laziness and not taking responsibility. There are a lot of good workers out there too, but it’s a pretty basic thing to turn up on time, and many younger folk can’t even do that. Just my observations. I would expect someone like a junior doctor to always be punctual and proactive, or else what are they doing a doctorate for, they’d be wasting their time otherwise! I think there is the other issue of financial incentive. What has a young person got to look forward to apart from an abysmal job market, housing crisis and cost of living crisis when they’re earning £10 an hour? I think do some they do think it’s easier to start a YouTube channel or go on onlyfans…

I agree, no workplace should be relying on an assumption junior staff will take on extra work all the time, its poor resource planning to assume that!

They were complaining about this for my generation in the 1990s too. They are always complaining.

If you are managing a trainee, then it is fundamentally your fault.

1. Set out expectations and check theirs; at the outset and each week - who does what, when, why
2. Guide behaviour based on self interest - who wants to be promoted, who wants to be recommended to stay on, who wants a personal reference to add to their CV... "Have you noticed the kids behaved better for you today when they were kept busy? How can you build on that?"
3. Reinforce rules - if they are late, they miss info and get a note sent to college. Polite but fair, make them articulate their own behaviour impact. "Do you know who is looking after the chuldren or what they are learning if you are late?", "And how does it work when you graduate, so parents bring kids to your class door but nobody is there?"
4. Advise college to resolve issues or find the trainee another post.

I remember 15 years ago having a graduate who wanted to advise the client in his second week, on a legal matter (not a legal role nor legal graduate), and appeared stunned that I said he wouldn't be allowed to talk. Some take a few weeks longer than others to figure out expectations, but he's done well for himself eventually and still sends me an occasional friendly update. They are there to learn, don't be annoyed just teach them.

Whats the book?

I disagree. Employers are complaining about the lack of basic life skills, i.e. turning up on time, being able to read and write to a basic standard, being able to understand basic instructions, etc. You have to question what schools are doing if they're churning out pupils who can't do that kind of thing as surely those "skills" were needed for school in the first place.