To be Concerned about husband's reaction to Xmas planning making it about race

Only read page one so sorry if this has been said/asked. I noticed you said you will be cooking mostly Asian food? Does your husband get on well with your relatives? I can only grasp at straws here, but does your husband feel included when your family are around? Do you include him/talk to him, cook something other than Asian food? That's the only thing I can think of, again, just grasping at straws.
Congratulations on your pregnancy and I hope whoever is there, that you have a wonderful Christmas.

So he wants everyone to come to your house together on Christmas Day? Have you done this before, or will it be the first time hosting all 14 together?

I’d be tempted to agree with him and see what happens, Does he enjoy planning for, cooking, and hosting large dinners, because he’s going to have to do a fair amount as you can’t do everything, plus your pregnancy could make you too tired to do much 😉 .
Do you think he’ll be up for that?

Perhaps I’m being a bit evil but I’d let him get on with it…and this might be the only year that he suggests this. 😈. Or it could go brilliantly!

This.
We have hosted both sides quite a few times but more often have celebrated Christmas separately..
My cousin who is married to an only child always invites his parents-in-law to Christmas.
My SIL who has an unmarried brother and no parents, always includes her brother in our family celebrations and this is expected.
My son-in-law's widowed mother is always invited to our extended family functions.

If you have a large home you can host both sides of the family easily. One side is very small. It makes sense to cook some foods that suit every one.
Ask guests to bring a dish to share and make sure no one is left alone at Christmas.

I don’t understand this. The only reason they haven’t spent it together some years is because he doesn’t go to her family at Christmas as only wants to go to his. That’s on him- she’s gone to his family Christmas lots. He would be at his own house so it’s not a question of spending it apart?

if I had a baby that baby would go with me at Christmas unless we were divorced and had to share custody, obviously I would be fair between the families but I certainly wouldn’t only prioritise my husbands every year like the ops dh does, so I see some difficult discussions ahead.

We host together, but simply because DH's family live in India. They stay with us for 2-3 months out of the year. So if they're here there here if that makes sense.

Your husband's comment is worrying and I wouldn't like it if mine said that. Children in mixed families can have a rough time finding their comfort zone in the world around them.

I'll never forget ds1 being taught about Rosa Parks at primary school. It took us a week to get to the bottom of why he was so upset. He was 6/7 at the time, and was scared of being separated from us, he didn't know where his place would be if we were segregated.

You have some serious conversations to have before your baby arrives, because if this is the beginning of comments like this, your relationship won't (shouldn't) survive it.

Similar family set up here including Asian partner and children. Trying to be non identifying but it's impossible 😂

One side of immediate family is sibling and widowed parent living in a different city. Widowed parent has physical needs and finds socialising difficult. Visits are stressful because the parent wants to leave immediately like your father in law. The parent can be hard work. (factual, the parent would admit it. )

Other side of the couple has multiple married siblings. All siblings have multiple children. Both parents are alive. All live walking distance in same city. They see each other multiple times a week and are all incredibly social. The siblings/spouses share a friendship group. There'll often be multiple extended family members and/or close friends knocking around too (as well as their spouses and/or children)

Usually there is an unofficial "Christmas" with everyone immediate family around for 70 percent of the time at one of the houses or spread between a couple of them for a couple of days in Nov or Dec. Widowed parent would not spend actual Christmas away from their home and couldn't cope with the chaos of everyone together for a longer period. It's not perfect but it's family.

Actual Christmas is spent with the rest of immediate family and usually a couple of friends get involved.

I don't think your husband is being racist or offensive as suggested. I think he's upset at not spending it together with you and often having to be without you for the day or a few days in the past and has expressed it incredibly poorly.

See also "no man who marries a woman could be sexist"...

I think it's far from the norm to blend families. I can think of only v few exceptions (certainly not me, I don't spend xmas with DP never mind his family!)

My cousin + her partner. Together since school and parents grew up together. Both small families (2 parents/1 parent + 1 sibling) and they do most of the day as a blend.

Friend who just has his mum. She goes to his husband's parents who host a big Xmas for all and sundry.

Thinking of my friends/family in mixed race relationships, as far as I know them well enough to know, noone does a blended thing. At most, if everyone is local and therefore knows each other (small town!) maybe a quick pint together before lunch or on Xmas eve.

Sorry to hear it OP. Don't have any advice to add to the others above but it sounds like you were coming from a genuinely thoughtful place, especially about his dad, and you didn't deserve the weird and hurtful response.

reading, not ‘resting’. My apologies for the typo.

It’s not as concrete as that. I live in a very multicultural city and know two women who have split with their husbands of different races. The reason for both of my friends is that the culture clash was more than the husbands thought it would be, even though both were born and raised in the same country.
It’s not impossible for her husband to begin resenting her culture. It’s sad but can happen.

Someone who is an out and out racist would never get together with a POC in the first place. They'd be too racist ffs!!

If you genuinely believe this, you have limited knowledge of the dynamics of racism, sexual politics and history. Slave owners had long term relationships and multiple children with women they owned. Quite a lot of men do not need to respect the women with whom they enter into relationships and procreate.

If you’ve somehow managed not to observe this, would you like recommendations for some resting on the topic? Peer reviewed academic research is very much available.

On what evidence are you basing this premise?

I think that is nonsense. Someone who is an out and out racist would never get together with a POC in the first place. They'd be too racist ffs!!

Your projection is off the scale with no evidence to support it!

Your plan sounded sensible. And based on people feeling comfortable.
Is your dh older then you?
Making it about race does seem very odd

Mixed race family here with kids - British Asian with a white husband

always do christmases separately for similar reason - families are different - absolutely nothing at all to do with race

husband has never ever mentioned race - he spends time with my family happily and I do with his.

my race (or now our kids’ race) never comes into his thought process tbh - it’s just not a thing any more than he happens to be white

odd comment from him. I would explore it

Can we stop acvusing OP if “separating the family by age?” That is not what she is proposing and that us not her goal. So teary stories about your great great gran are just tedious and beside the point.

Also: of course racists marry women of colour—happens all the time. They make sn exception, or have a fetish, or think its not a problem because of some gendered or misogynistic facet to their racism. But they can still dislike the woman’s culture or race or community. In the current anti woke/misogynistic and fascistic rise of white nationalism he may even be regretting his choice or anxious about his mixed race baby. So Op’s romantic partner may have started out ignoring her race and ended up angry about it.

He only made it about race to shame you into promptly doing what he wants. If you go against his wishes then you're racist. A lose lose situation for you. Concerning behaviour from him when you have a baby on the way.

In all my years, I've never known anyone to include both sides of the family at Christmas. It's not about race :
It's about different family dynamics.
It's about spending quality time with your nearest and dearest and not spreading yourself too thinly.
It's about making everyone feel comfortable in your home.
It's about space in the house,
It's about age factors.
It's about what each side of the family normally do/enjoy at Christmas.

We are both white and definitely have separate gatherings. Can you have a big Christmas with your family on boxing day? Then suggest the opposite next year to make it fair. Absolutely no reason to blend families, especially if one family is as dull as dishwater quieter. Him insisting on blending is insane. His family aren't more important than yours because they are white

Perfectly normal to have both sides of the family together for celebrations and also perfectly normal for people to choose to celebrate separately.

I don't know anyone who separates hosting Xmas based on age though. I do think your dh shouldn't have said it's about race but I wonder if he thinks his 4 family members will think that's why you've chosen to not invite them all together and want them separate instead.

If it's an option I'd personally give the four people on dh side of the family a choice, tell them you're hosting your family too but it will be full of games and music and have traditional Indian food and ask his family if they'd like to join with that celebration or if they'd prefer a quiet one separately with a traditional roast then that's fine too.

My dhs side, if they separated by age then his grandchildren would have missed out on some very happy memories with their great great gran Six generations ageing from 97 to 7 months having fun together and believe me, if moaning we're a sport his gran could win a medal but we always made sure she could join in with the whole family and just told her what to expect at celebrations so she could make her own mind and when her dementia got really bad and she was in a home, one person agreed to not drink so that she could still be included and taken home early if needed.

He might be worried that his family will be pushed aside when baby arrives? An exuberant, fun loving, young set of in-laws versus his older, smaller family with a dad who has dementia and hearing difficulties, who are inevitably likely to be more child-centric? It sounds like he has some sort of concerns underlying what he's said?

I don't think the situation is irredeemable but you need to talk, talk, talk.

I’m Black, my husband is white and I genuinely cannot imagine him saying anything like this to me. Because he likes and respects me, but mainly because he’s not an idiot.

How on earth have you managed to have a relationship, marry and prepare to have a child with someone when This isn't the first time he's done something like this - any discussion involving race tends to end badly.

More importantly, WHY would you do this? Your mixed race child will have a parent who has racial ‘issues’ (I’m being generous, here). You felt this was a good idea?

How Christmas is organised is pretty much irrelevant to the real issue. Different families organise Christmas in myriad different ways - everyone together, alternating years, there are dozens of solutions and they work for different people. Doesn’t matter, you can figure that out.

The real issue is that you’re a woman of colour who appears to have sleep walked into a relationship with a bigot. Wake up.

My family have met his twice - at our wedding, and at DS’s first birthday.

This is why Mumsnet is so fascinating, as I grew up totally different.

My mums side of the family and my dads side of the family got on great. Many family get togethers, holidays, most Christmases together.

My paternal grandmother used to regularly visit my maternal grandmother when she was very ill in the weeks up to her death. My mum was very grateful for her MIL.

OP, - you were not unreasonable to suggest hosting separately, obviously I grew up differently but I wouldn’t find it offensive. Your DH’s comments were ridiculous.

But he insists on seeing his family every year whereas some years I haven't seen mine and that's annoyed me too so now I insist on seeing mine.

I'm sorry OP but I think he's the racist. He's fine with you when to all intents and purposes you are a white woman in your behaviour. But as soon as he has to face that you are not actually a white woman and have an Asian family his racism comes spilling out.

So you suggesting that you host the families separately is you being racist against his family, but when you have to see his and not your own that's...what? I'd call it racism. Or he's just a controlling husband and is using race to get you to go back in your box.

I began by saying he is racist. By the time I've written the above I've decided he's a racist, controlling hypocrite.

He'd better have a damn good explanation for his comment or you need to think about the future when there's a mixed race child involved.

Is he helping with the shopping , food prep , presents, cooking and serving and cleaning up ?