Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bus driver refused to make passenger leave

238 replies

MobilityCat · 16/11/2024 23:54

Last night on the very crowded bus I was unable to get to the wheelchair space to park, as it was full of luggage and people. The only place available was in the doorway.

A person stood next to me in the doorway and refused to move to allow people off, saying it was I that was in the way.

I asked him to move out of the doorway so other passengers could get off, but he wouldn't so I told him that he was being inconsiderate and he started shouting and swearing at me. I told him to move away and leave me alone.

He persisted so I called twice to the driver to get him off the bus, but the driver took no action to make him leave, so I was left to manage his abuse.

He then stood in front of me and threatened me, so I raised my walking stick and pointed it at him as a warning. He backed away but carried on threatening me.

I told him that I didn't want to hurt him but if he didn't leave me alone and continued threatening me I would.

He moved further away from me, but continued to swear at me, but since he was no longer a threat I just ignored him.

I was bullied as a child, but learned to stand up against bullies as they are basically cowards, but Is it asking too much to expect the driver to protect their passengers?

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 18/11/2024 01:33

DragonGypsyDoris · 17/11/2024 13:16

Bus drivers are paid to drive safely. They can ask people to move, but cannot make them move. If they refuse to drive the bus, then rather than one angry person they could face dozens who are being delayed. Bus drivers can't win, and the travelling public (whether passengers or in other vehicles) often blame them for everything.

Is the bus safe if there is a wheelchair user who isn't parked correctly? I thought that drivers weren't supposed to move off until the back of the wheelchair was against the rest.

JubileeJuice · 18/11/2024 00:49

Oh, and my best mate is a London bus driver. If a wheelchair user gets on his bus and there are people, luggage, pushchairs or anything else in the wheelchair space, he will turn off the engine if they refuse to move, and won't set off until they do. Inevitably, the other passengers get annoyed at the person who won't move, and they end up moving. Simple really.

JubileeJuice · 18/11/2024 00:48

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 19:22

who the hell was referring to people as wheelchairs? I was referring to wheelchairs as wheelchairs, because thats what they are. They are a thing. are you hard of reading as well?

Edited

You were. More than once. Wheelchairs have people in them. They don't just miraculously appear on buses. Basic courtesy.

It's so gross when I'm somewhere like a restaurant and staff will say to my DH, "The wheelchair can go there". I'm a fucking human, not a wheelchair. I'm a wheelchair USER, not a wheelchair. Describing an actual person as an object is just vile.

Isatis · 18/11/2024 00:20

ArminTamzerian · 18/11/2024 00:11

No court has ever found that bus drivers need to sort out fights amongst passengers, and never will.

And I didn't say they had. They found however that drivers couldn't just ignore it and must make at least reasonable efforts to protect the interests of disabled passengers. See Paulley v First Group plc.

ArminTamzerian · 18/11/2024 00:11

Isatis · 17/11/2024 23:31

The courts have found otherwise. Bus companies can't just provide a space and then leave passengers to fight it out between themselves. They have to make a least some effort to help wheelchair users.

Edited

No court has ever found that bus drivers need to sort out fights amongst passengers, and never will.

Isatis · 17/11/2024 23:31

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 10:27

It's not discrimination. The company has made reasonable adjustments in providing the space. It's up to passengers to use their brains and not obstruct it.

The courts have found otherwise. Bus companies can't just provide a space and then leave passengers to fight it out between themselves. They have to make a least some effort to help wheelchair users.

Agapornis · 17/11/2024 23:20

I'd recommend reporting it to British Transport Police asap, as in my experience TfL only keep CCTV for a week, and BTP are very slow to follow up. The bus stop is usually also covered by CCTV.

Agapornis · 17/11/2024 23:14

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:16

Thanks I'll try to remember that

Presuming you tapped in with an Oyster card or bank card: If you have an online TfL account you should be able to see your journey history and the time you tapped in.

If you haven't got an account already, you should have one for delay repay purposes. Mind you, TfL got hacked at the start of September and lots of systems have been offline, so it may not work at the moment.

Cesarina · 17/11/2024 20:14

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 19:06

I understand your confusion, many people like me are semi ambulatory and need a stick to transition from the chair to the toilet etc. I also carry a portable ramp because sometimes the bus ramp doesn't work or there's no dropped kerb, etc.

@MobilityCat
Thank you for educating me........I mean that sincerely!

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 19:26

JubileeJuice · 17/11/2024 18:37

Perhaps you should stop referring to disabled people as wheelchairs.

Or wheelchair user.

OP posts:
TwattyMcFuckFace · 17/11/2024 19:24

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 19:22

who the hell was referring to people as wheelchairs? I was referring to wheelchairs as wheelchairs, because thats what they are. They are a thing. are you hard of reading as well?

Edited

No, but if you re-read your earlier post and still can't understand how it comes across, then perhaps you are?

However, I was giving the benefit of doubt as you might have realised how it came across.

No biggie, or reason to get rude.

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 19:24

snowmichael · 17/11/2024 18:15

So, no, you do not know what assault is

"Common assault is when a person inflicts violence on someone else or makes them think they are going to be attacked. It does not have to involve physical violence. Threatening words or a raised fist is enough for the crime to have been committed provided the victim thinks that they are about to be attacked."

His exact words were "I'm going to f... ing kill you!"

OP posts:
Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 19:22

TwattyMcFuckFace · 17/11/2024 19:21

Come on, being disabled doesn't mean it's ok to refer to people as wheelchairs.

I must admit I did bristle when I read that post, although I accept you might have been typing quickly or something and not realised.

who the hell was referring to people as wheelchairs? I was referring to wheelchairs as wheelchairs, because thats what they are. They are a thing. are you hard of reading as well?

TwattyMcFuckFace · 17/11/2024 19:21

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 19:18

i'm disabled. perhaps you should stop making assumptions and try contributing something constructive to the debate instead of trying to score pointless points. A wheelchair and a disabled person are two completely diferent things. They are not interchangeable.

Edited

Come on, being disabled doesn't mean it's ok to refer to people as wheelchairs.

I must admit I did bristle when I read that post, although I accept you might have been typing quickly or something and not realised.

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 19:18

JubileeJuice · 17/11/2024 18:37

Perhaps you should stop referring to disabled people as wheelchairs.

i'm disabled. perhaps you should stop making assumptions and try contributing something constructive to the debate instead of trying to score pointless points. A wheelchair and a disabled person are two completely diferent things. They are not interchangeable.

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 19:10

rwalker · 17/11/2024 12:17

Should of rung the police the bus drivers don’t have any powers to remove people

I certainly wouldn’t expect the driver to get involved in confrontation
every year there are 1000,s of physical assaults on people working with the public

there paid to drive not deal with thugs and line themselves up for a kicking

Supposed you be happy for him to get assaulted

I didn't expect them to leave their driving cubicle. Other posters have described the safe options available for the driver to use.

OP posts:
MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 19:06

Cesarina · 17/11/2024 12:25

@MobilityCat Apologies if someone has already asked this............I'm a bit confused. You were unable to use the wheelchair space as it was taken up by luggage and people.
But then you refer to your walking stick, and potentially hitting the aggressive man with it.
So were you in your wheelchair and using a walking stick?
Not judging or criticising, just curious.

I understand your confusion, many people like me are semi ambulatory and need a stick to transition from the chair to the toilet etc. I also carry a portable ramp because sometimes the bus ramp doesn't work or there's no dropped kerb, etc.

OP posts:
LikeARunnerHo · 17/11/2024 19:03

I’m surprised that people saw that you were coming on the bus and just stood in the wheelchair space, that makes no sense. I’m even more surprised that the driver drove the bus knowing that you were in the way of the doors and wasn’t securely parked in a safe space.

There’s so much to complain about in this instance. I think it’s worth contacting TFL and getting them to remind the drivers that it’s imperative that the wheelchair user space needs to be cleared. The buses even have an announcement which tells people to move!

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:57

mm81736 · 17/11/2024 12:33

I wouldn't complain because it may come back to bite you.Your threatening of the man with a stick was way worse than anything he did.

I didn't threaten I used it to keep him away and warned him that if he continued to threaten me I would use it to hurt him. He believed me and backed away.

OP posts:
Cesarina · 17/11/2024 18:52

ThatRareUmberJoker · 17/11/2024 18:21

Thank you for setting me straight I was going to have a sleepless night over it.

Ah, sorry to hear that. Hope you sleep well.

ThatRareUmberJoker · 17/11/2024 18:51

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:49

Let me try to say this another way. I WAS DEFENDING MYSELF. He was approaching me threatening violence. My only means of defending myself was keeping him away from me with it.

I was abused in broad daylight in London no one came to my defence. People don't understand what it's like in London it's a box of frogs.

MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:49

Areolaborealis · 17/11/2024 13:33

The bus driver should have requested that the wheelchair space was vacated and cleared of luggage, but they can't force people to do this.

I don't think you should have told the man to move and then threaten him with a stick when he didn't comply - its aggressive and maybe why nobody came to your defence.

Let me try to say this another way. I WAS DEFENDING MYSELF. He was approaching me threatening violence. My only means of defending myself was keeping him away from me with it.

OP posts:
MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:45

MumonabikeE5 · 17/11/2024 13:47

What they can do is refuse to move the bus. This usually compels the no compliant passenger to move.
that said we should expect better busses in London.
in Spain there are busses which can accommodate multiple wheelchairs and buggies.
we need to demand more.

Absolutely!

OP posts:
MobilityCat · 17/11/2024 18:40

Serencwtch · 17/11/2024 13:38

Exactly this!

OP has already admitted to threatening people with a walking stick & no doubt verbally abusive as well. The bus driver has the right to refuse to drive if someone is threatening violence.

Yes wheelchairs have priority over push chairs in a wheelchair space but the driver has no power to enforce that. They drive the bus they are not security guards or police! All he could do was ask but he cannot forcably remove people.

If the bus is full & overcrowded then you can't force paying passengers already on the bus to get off. You have the right to request luggage be moved & buggies folded but you can't just remove people from the bus.

Did you actually read my post? I asked him to let other passengers out and he turned on me, shouting at me and threatening me.

When he came towards me I held up my stick to keep him away from me and calmly told him that I didn't want to hurt him but if he continued to threaten me I would. It worked and he left me alone.

OP posts:
JubileeJuice · 17/11/2024 18:37

Curtainqueen · 17/11/2024 10:12

Thing is though during a 12 hour shift most drivers won't pick up a single wheelchair anyway so following that logic people who could have used the space for keeping luggage out of the way can't do so on the off chance, when the likelihood is no wheelchair is going to enter the bus during that entire shift anyway. How often do you even see a wheelchair using the space during the course of a week? I use several routes in east London and I think a month ago I saw a wheelchair on one bus.

Perhaps you should stop referring to disabled people as wheelchairs.