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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be absolutely devastated by this?

370 replies

Haveyouseenthischicken · 16/11/2024 00:16

Posting here for traffic and because I am desperate for someone to talk me down off the ledge!

We own a flat in an expensive part of England. We paid £275k for it back in 2020, it came with a £1900 annual management fee. We thought ah, not so bad, it’s a city centre flat in a new development. In 4 years it’s gone up to £3600. The services received are crap. Over £50k for ‘gardeners’ who come once a year to mow the communal lawn. Cleaners who clock in on the sheet then leave 10 minutes later having done nothing. A scummy company basically, con artists and of course they’re totally unregulated.

We were unluckily caught up in the cladding scandal, and the whole saga of having this rectified took nearly 4 years in total. We moved out over 2 years ago and relocated for career changes, and have been living in a tiny 1 bedroom flat ever since. We couldn’t sell due to the lack of fire safety so have had to rent. We got the fire safety certificate and thought great, now we can sell our flat and move on with our lives! Now we can start trying for a baby (I’m 31, time isn’t on my side).

The flat has been on the market for 6 weeks and not a single viewing or enquiry. We’ve already priced it 25k below market value. Our agent believes it’s the high service charge putting people off.

After 2 years of hell waiting for the certificate and constant pushbacks by the housing developer for non existent reasons, we’ve today been told that our 2025 service charge will be between £7-9k PER FLAT to cover the cost of a new building safety report for all buildings over 18m high. There’s no guarantee this is a one off payment either. If people don’t want to buy with a £3600 service charge, they aren’t going to touch a flat with a £7-9k service charge.

I am absolutely devastated and have been crying since we found out. We thought this hell was over. Our lives have been stalled for over 2 years already. We can’t afford this charge. We are looking at a potential £700+ addition on top of our mortgage. We have tenants in at the moment but their rent only covers the mortgage and the service charge. We never have and never will make any profit off the flat, we rented it out of desperation and because we needed to relocate.

We are now looking at selling it at auction with a reserve price of £230k. We have an £80k deposit in this property and £180k left on the mortgage, so we would be selling at a major loss but at this point it seems the best option. We’ve even stooped to contacting those house buying companies.

I know it sounds dramatic but it genuinely feels like our life is over. We are just normal people with normal salaries. This will financially ruin us 😭

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Wibblywobblybobbly · 17/11/2024 18:42

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 17/11/2024 18:10

As others have suggested, I would raise it with everyone who will listen, local MP, BBC journalists et al. It's outrageous. The original service charge alone is a scandal for what it covers, let alone with the cladding increase.
TBH I can't imagine who would buy the flat even cheaply, but you can try putting it on the market and hope to get rid of it.
I have heard that if you simply default on the mortgage payments and service charges and leave the flat empty, eventually it will be repossessed and you won't have to pay anything further, and if a profit is made when the freeholder sells it, the profit will be returned to you. Please take legal advice before going down this route obviously. It is something I would seriously consider in your position even if it meant losing some or all of your equity. The freeholder would eventually get the problem back, fwhere it belongs.

Edited

This is terrible advice. It will completely wreck the OPs credit rating if nothing else.

Gillgeordie · 17/11/2024 18:41

You need to have a communal meeting and ask service providers to issue u with a factual breakdown of where they are getting their figures from . You should check their “contracts “ with the companies they hire and see if they are actually legitimate? There are definitely companies not adhering to best practices. Legal advice might be beneficial if things seem suspect ? You could share the cosy communally as this will be affecting you all .

TonTonMacoute · 17/11/2024 18:39

Haveyouseenthischicken · 16/11/2024 00:25

@Wibblywobblybobbly I believe someone in our block is currently looking into it, but it’s just another unbelievably stressful process to go through on top of everything else 😭 the issue is leasehold management companies are totally unregulated and they can essentially charge what they want. I believe there’s petitions to have this changed but it feels like they’re trying to take us for all we have before they become illegal. It’s a living nightmare x

This is so true, it's a scandal that's been going on for ages too.

I used to own a flat and our management company ended up being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office. Luckily we had a good group of flat owners, but I'm afraid it was very stressful and long winded to get rid of them.

That was nearly 30 years ago and it's still a complete free for all out there.

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 17/11/2024 18:38

andIsaid · 16/11/2024 15:17

This falls into a massive POLITICAL (if the political is about people) problem, predatory housing, where housing falls under investment and profit, rather than a right to shelter. It creates a valuable market of permanent renters. Unregulated, high cost of rent, or (pretend) ownership, means exclusion for most. This is part of the financial strangulation of the lower and middle classes, and especially the young. The knock on effects are substantial.

This is part of the reason Trump won so big in the States, why there were protests in Spain this summer, and many more examples over the Western world. It is a big problem, because the huge Hedge funds that operate in this sector can penetrate any market, ride out the natural flux of markets, let properties sit empty to maintain prices etc. Tax laws and banking help those who are already wealthy; land ownership in cities plays a strong role too.

I would try to fight back. The only power available to you and others, will be in numbers, and exposure.

Get as many people as possible together, and delegate, create roles. Gather all the evidence you can about the company, their finances, their dealings with you/all of you, other buildings they own etc.

I would get all of you to contact your MPS, your local politicians, the council, the people in charge of building reg (why is it your cost?), the company who built the building in the first place, consumer rights, and document each and every effort and response. Film and record what you can, but do that bit legally.

Then, I would hammer the doors of Chanel 4 news, BBC, the Times, the Guardian, all of them. It is an excellent story for news people as it impacts most of the population, has clear victims (us) and clear bad guys (developers and all the rest).

The numbers you are quoting should clearly be illegal, I am pretty sure there is not one household that can absorb that kind of cost.

I can really feel your distress. Especially as you want to start a family, did the right thing by saving for a home, being a responsible person and citizen. To then find all of your efforts swallowed by predatory fuck wits must be very hard to take.

Good luck @Haveyouseenthischicken

It's got far more to do with the bizarre system of landownership , freehold and leasehold, in England. The OP is moving to Scotland- Assuming she doesn't look at any property affected by cladding issyes none of the problems she has apply to flatted property here.

wasdarknowblond · 17/11/2024 18:37

I think the above recommendation of the FB group sounds a great idea. I’d also contact MP, Channel 4 News, BBC, newspapers and check out the legal situation. Some leasehold management companies really exploit tenants. I really feel so sorry you are in this situation. I hope you get some support. Sending a big 🤗

Isinglass20 · 17/11/2024 18:34

Sorry to hear of your situation. I’m in a similar situation.
My advice is you must find a solicitor who is a specialist in leasehold. Many claim they do with eyes on fees who just send a letter and hope for the best.
read your lease yourself and try and understand what it says before you seek legal advice. Google terms you don’t understand.
Put queries onto Google and read the free advice given by law firms and compare and go with advice repeated by other law firms.
Look up your rights and protections under the Landlord & Tenant Act and Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002. These underpin your lease which is a legally binding contract on the parties to it.
You have legal right to inspect accounts under Section 21 LTA 1985. Download the Act and download templates from Leasehold Advisory Service.
The reason for the fraud is that tenants have not taken an interest in what is happening.Not attended tenants meetings not queried accounts.
You have the right to take the matter to the First Tier Property Tribunal which is not as expensive as Civil Court and determines whether the landlord or management company is not performing its obligations under terms of your lease. Civil court judges have little knowledge of leasehold and property law.
M Gove backed out because of the sheer complexity of Property Law, Trust Law, etc.going back to Edward the First.
The reason why renting is controlled in Europe is thanks to Napoleon after the Revolution when land ownership swept away.

Righttherights · 17/11/2024 18:33

Could you offer up 1st year mgt fees paid as part of the sale? Just to get it over the line? Lots of expensive retirement villages do this!

Blarney72 · 17/11/2024 18:25

Look into a Section 20 notice (S20). It's a legal requirement for landlords or their agents to inform leaseholders of upcoming works or services that they will be responsible for paying towards:

More importantly a S20 is required when the cost of major works is more than £250 per flat.

worldwidetravel2017 · 17/11/2024 18:24

So sorry to read this

I lost thousands on a flat sale in 2021

Similar / same old

Cleaners that lied.
Rubbish managenent company

Over priced service charge

Joyola · 17/11/2024 18:23

If you are with FP, there will be a programme about on RIP Off Britain this coming Friday, and a letter,signed by 32 MP’s has been sent, questioning their charges and asking for an explanation. If you are with FP, I haven’t seen a positive review of them.

DahliaRose3 · 17/11/2024 18:19

Our block ended up going to court with the management company over a dispute over the service charge fees. We were each due to pay £25k in fees, thankfully it panned out well.

We were given a break down of the expenses, some of which were non-existent like a concierge. It’s worth banding together and getting a breakdown of everything, and getting a representative for your apartment. People don’t often want to get involved but want the problems resolved.

Daisdoozles · 17/11/2024 18:18

Join leasehold campaign Facebook group. They are working tirelessly for reform and will be happy to advise you. I previously did a RTM with the flat owners in my block and we fired the management company and all all contractors and replaced with our own. We saved two thirds of the annual costs we were previously paying.

peanutmother · 17/11/2024 18:16

I think you need to start a resident's revolution

Write to your MP?

speyside · 17/11/2024 18:13

also get legal advice I know this is stressful but you may also be due compensation for this gross costing how do they prove thie costs are correct.

speyside · 17/11/2024 18:11

surely there is a contract with the service company they are not in a job for life. If all homeowners agree you should be able to give them notice to terminate agreement.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 17/11/2024 18:10

As others have suggested, I would raise it with everyone who will listen, local MP, BBC journalists et al. It's outrageous. The original service charge alone is a scandal for what it covers, let alone with the cladding increase.
TBH I can't imagine who would buy the flat even cheaply, but you can try putting it on the market and hope to get rid of it.
I have heard that if you simply default on the mortgage payments and service charges and leave the flat empty, eventually it will be repossessed and you won't have to pay anything further, and if a profit is made when the freeholder sells it, the profit will be returned to you. Please take legal advice before going down this route obviously. It is something I would seriously consider in your position even if it meant losing some or all of your equity. The freeholder would eventually get the problem back, fwhere it belongs.

NeedSomeHeadspace · 17/11/2024 18:09

I guess it’s Leasehold not Freehold? Can you get advice from Citizens Advice or the council, or a lawyer if you know one, about all flat owners purchasing the Freehold then you can be in control of the maintenance spend? It will be a few grand per flat to buy a share of the Freehold each, but it shouldn’t amount to more than the proposed annual maintenance charge. That’s scandalous. Speak to your local MP too. Best of luck!

LOVETHISCHAT · 17/11/2024 18:07

I would report the management company to the property ombudsman and seek legal advice.
In the meantime, rather than reducing the price further, why not offer to pay the first year’s service charge as a sweetener for any buyer. In the long run it will be worth it- you just need to get rid of the place ASAP.

Lovemycat2023 · 17/11/2024 18:07

This sounds absolutely awful, and I’m so sorry you’re in this position. As well as the other suggestions I would also try your MP (if they are one who is good at responding to casework)

Edit - sorry, just seen you’ve already done this.

ShinyShona · 17/11/2024 18:03

Like a lot of the property sector, the people in management companies are normally lazy sods looking for a quick buck who like to spend 8 hours a day posting on social media about how hard they work. You could try and sack the management company but you would need a majority of flat owners to come together to do it.

Purplebunnie · 17/11/2024 18:00

Not read the full thread. Has anyone mentioned contacting your local MP regarding the outrageous service charges?

Fwaltz · 17/11/2024 17:59

I can only sympathise. We went through a very similar thing with our flat in London. The service charge doubled year on year for the four years we had it, ending up at £10k for a year. It was brutal.
In the end we sold for a price that was massively under market value (think around £100k) and with a clause that we would pay an additional amount to the purchaser for up to one year after the sale should it go above £10k again. To be honest, the relief of having the bloody thing gone was worth it by that stage.
No advice other than never by another leasehold property. You’re in the hands of someone else the whole time and it’s an awful feeling. Speak to your estate agent and see if a similar clause being written in to offset the charge for the future owner might drum up some interest. Good luck!

LozzaChops101 · 17/11/2024 17:58

I was going to ask if it was HML. They’re the grifters I have to deal with too. Really sorry, OP, I hope you get a resolution.

Yellowpens · 17/11/2024 17:55

Not read full thread.

echo suggestion of Right To Manage - see “user1471548941 · Yesterday 01:39“

alternatively check out the leaseholder’s Advisory Service which has lots of useful information around service charges/estate management charges law and will guide you through any conflicts.

daisychain01 · 17/11/2024 17:53

Apologies if this has been mentioned, @Haveyouseenthischicken could you try talking with the Housing ombudsman who are meant to support people in your situation