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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be absolutely devastated by this?

370 replies

Haveyouseenthischicken · 16/11/2024 00:16

Posting here for traffic and because I am desperate for someone to talk me down off the ledge!

We own a flat in an expensive part of England. We paid £275k for it back in 2020, it came with a £1900 annual management fee. We thought ah, not so bad, it’s a city centre flat in a new development. In 4 years it’s gone up to £3600. The services received are crap. Over £50k for ‘gardeners’ who come once a year to mow the communal lawn. Cleaners who clock in on the sheet then leave 10 minutes later having done nothing. A scummy company basically, con artists and of course they’re totally unregulated.

We were unluckily caught up in the cladding scandal, and the whole saga of having this rectified took nearly 4 years in total. We moved out over 2 years ago and relocated for career changes, and have been living in a tiny 1 bedroom flat ever since. We couldn’t sell due to the lack of fire safety so have had to rent. We got the fire safety certificate and thought great, now we can sell our flat and move on with our lives! Now we can start trying for a baby (I’m 31, time isn’t on my side).

The flat has been on the market for 6 weeks and not a single viewing or enquiry. We’ve already priced it 25k below market value. Our agent believes it’s the high service charge putting people off.

After 2 years of hell waiting for the certificate and constant pushbacks by the housing developer for non existent reasons, we’ve today been told that our 2025 service charge will be between £7-9k PER FLAT to cover the cost of a new building safety report for all buildings over 18m high. There’s no guarantee this is a one off payment either. If people don’t want to buy with a £3600 service charge, they aren’t going to touch a flat with a £7-9k service charge.

I am absolutely devastated and have been crying since we found out. We thought this hell was over. Our lives have been stalled for over 2 years already. We can’t afford this charge. We are looking at a potential £700+ addition on top of our mortgage. We have tenants in at the moment but their rent only covers the mortgage and the service charge. We never have and never will make any profit off the flat, we rented it out of desperation and because we needed to relocate.

We are now looking at selling it at auction with a reserve price of £230k. We have an £80k deposit in this property and £180k left on the mortgage, so we would be selling at a major loss but at this point it seems the best option. We’ve even stooped to contacting those house buying companies.

I know it sounds dramatic but it genuinely feels like our life is over. We are just normal people with normal salaries. This will financially ruin us 😭

OP posts:
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user1492757084 · 16/11/2024 03:32

How terrible for you.

Band together with other like minded flat owners and..

  • challenge the fees and services management.
  • vote for more of you to be at body corporate meetings and in control of the services.
  • question prices and ask for more quotes for all works carried out.
Artistbythewater · 16/11/2024 03:28

I would contact all the owners and seek legal advice collectively.

Contact your MP and get then involved.

If the meeting with the owners failed, I would go to local and national newspapers as well with your story.

Nottodaythankyou123 · 16/11/2024 02:06

I appreciate being devastated but I mean this as kindly as possible, please don’t be passive. There are things you can do - RTM especially - which will resolve this relatively quickly (6 months ish). If you’re genuinely keen on selling I would be taking the lead on communicating with other leaseholders as it’ll require a majority of you to agree, getting advice from a solicitor and getting the ball rolling. A fee increase of £1.6k to £7k in 4 years should mean most leaseholders are happy to sign up!
It’s absolutely outrageous but nothing will change without action from the leaseholders.

paradiseonfire · 16/11/2024 01:57

That sounds awful!

EmeraldRoulette · 16/11/2024 01:55

Wibblywobblybobbly · 16/11/2024 00:34

The government backed Leasehold Advisory Service will likely be more help than Shelter.

Agree, definitely contact them

also agree with pp about the oddity of this being built post Grenfell

I was in a high rise built before Grenfell

we were assured within days of that that the cladding was fine but we did have to pay for a review and certification

it put a bit extra on the service charge but there is no reason why yours should double

I'd have a look at the accounts in detail.

I do agree that there needs to be legislation about how mgmt companies operate but in this case I wonder if you already have grounds to get rid of them as it sounds mad

you might get away with paying the charge in part and dispute the rest

have you been living away because it was deemed unsafe?

Baroness Fox in the House of Lords was working on the Leasehold Reform bill. I wonder if it's worth writing to her. But getting rid of the mgmt company is a good idea I know people who switched to RTM without hassle.

does the freeholder know about the situation? Is it them who appoint the mgmt co?

StandingSideBySide · 16/11/2024 01:41

You say this is a flat in a new development and you bought in 2020
If this is correct your developers are at fault here with the cladding because that whole thing kicked off after Grenfell and, as an architect, I clearly remember us checking everything we specified hadn’t been value engineered to not confirm. That was definitely by 2018 and I even remember the week after Grenfell constant calls from developers checking the specs.

Why were they using materials that did not conform in 2019/ 2020. If they were I’d talk to a solicitor

appreciate this is a side issue

RailwayCutting · 16/11/2024 01:40

This is where the programme That's Life used to be good. They used to highlight issues like this.

user1471548941 · 16/11/2024 01:39

We have done Right to Manage on ours! Another resident took the lead on doing the admin but consulted everyone along the way- we all paid £250 towards the cost of the solicitor's fees to sort it and it took about 6 months for the full process but I promise you it wasn't stressful. Mainly we just had to reply to other resident's email asking us our preference for certain issues- all decided by majority vote.

We all agreed to fire the current management company and then got quotes and reviews from 3 new ones. The new one was selected by majority vote. Our issue wasn't that the old company was charging us loads, it was that they weren't actually maintaining the property properly and as we had an old building, this was important. Therefore we didn't chose the cheapest company, we wanted the most reliable. New company have charged us the same as the old but improvements in service on cleaning, gardening and external maintenance jobs so I would say we got exactly what we needed from the process, with really very little effort.

In your shoes I would give Right to Manage a serious go- I would imagine other residents will support with the insane bills everyone has received! But if you're not going to sell quickly anyway, I'd go through 6 months of admin and see if you can avoid loosing so much money!

SomeSuperhero · 16/11/2024 01:37

I’m so sorry to read this, how awful. Hoping some of the suggestions on the thread lead to a breakthrough.

RailwayCutting · 16/11/2024 01:29

Over £50k for ‘gardeners’ who come once a year to mow the communal lawn
It's disgraceful that this sort of scam is allowed. The people raking in money like this are despicable. It should be regulated.

Insuffishcakes · 16/11/2024 01:26

I was in a similar position 10 years ago. While I knew it wasn't right, I didn't have the energy to fight it, so sold by auction. I lost money on it, but any investment can go down as well as up, and at least I was free to rebuild my life.
I believe the new owners took them to court and probably made a good profit in doing so, and good for them, but I'm glad I didn't waste any more of my life on it, it's only money.
While I think there's been some great advice from PPs, I think you need to weigh up what's most important to you.
Maybe being free to concentrate on starting a family matters more than being right
Whatever you decide, know that I feel your pain, and hope that you too will soon be able to look back and be so happy about how much better your life is now

Dahliasarebeautiful · 16/11/2024 01:19

Without wanting to throw more wood on the fire, you'll have to declare your rental income on a self assessment. I was happily renting my house out on a residential mortgage with permission to let, literally just covering my mortgage payments and I still had to do a self assessment and pay out for the tax (out of my own pocket), just get rid of it as fast you can. With the interest rate hikes my mortgage was double what I was getting in rent and you only get 20% off the interest payments off your mortgage to offset the rent received (obviously including other maintenance costs) I didn't have a service charge so I don't know if that's eligible as a deduction for tax purposes.

tolerable · 16/11/2024 01:18

If I new a financial remedy.i would tell you.
Truth is,I don't even know you got options,far less what they are.
So,u gony read them do
Breath in .. blow out, again, slow down, blow "out" away.... Loose your mind ...in the thing that you r ecognise as "happy"
Breath= a daily given.(,or not) Focus on that
.... . ...
Ideally
Thing is,I willni move forward til you do.split second absolutely does it.... Keep it real

NeonGiraffe · 16/11/2024 01:16

So sorry you are going through this. I p

Although I don't think it helps right now, as won't come into effect till 2025 or 2026, when it does the leaseholders reform bill might help. As far as I know I think it forces freeholders to be transparent about what services charges are for. More importantly, I think it takes the onus off leaseholders to pay freeholders fees for a legal challenge. If you can't sell now it might help a little to know this is on the horizon. This from the net:

Litigation costs
Landlords will not be able to recover litigation costs from leaseholders if the costs arise from a service charge challenge. Leaseholders will have the right to claim their own litigation costs from their landlord in relation to certain proceedings relating to their lease.

StormingNorman · 16/11/2024 01:11

twilightermummy · 16/11/2024 00:52

How can they justify doubling it? It's disgusting. I understand why you're stressed. I think it would be helpful for you to try and take a break away from all of this, if even just for a few days. You could download a meditation app and just try and zone out of it for a small while. This must be absolutely wearing you down.

OP said the uplift is for the cladding survey. They cost tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds depending on the size of the building.

AuroraBo · 16/11/2024 01:09

Who regulates the company who manages the flats?

juggleit · 16/11/2024 01:09

Floralnomad · 16/11/2024 00:35

Can you try and speak to the MP who has the constituency , may not be any use but some of them are willing to try and assist with these kinds of things . Obviously these management groups need regulating as it’s ridiculous .

Yes approach your MP and collaborate with all the owners/tenants and stay strong - what an awful situation to be in but look after yourself. This too shall pass eventually ❤️

RogueFemale · 16/11/2024 01:07

AtomHeartMotherOfGod · 16/11/2024 01:05

Honestly I've heard so much about these awful situations that I would write to my MP about it, or someone like that guy who sorts out scams and money issues (Martin Lewis is it?).

Some kind of regulation seems desperately needed. Things like the gardener salary sound, basically, fraudulent if they really aren't doing anything.

I agree, the leasehold sector is awful. I escaped a decade ago from London after multiple leasehold nightmares. Now outside of London with a freehold.

AtomHeartMotherOfGod · 16/11/2024 01:05

Honestly I've heard so much about these awful situations that I would write to my MP about it, or someone like that guy who sorts out scams and money issues (Martin Lewis is it?).

Some kind of regulation seems desperately needed. Things like the gardener salary sound, basically, fraudulent if they really aren't doing anything.

RogueFemale · 16/11/2024 01:05

@Haveyouseenthischicken we’ve today been told that our 2025 service charge will be between £7-9k PER FLAT to cover the cost of a new building safety report for all buildings over 18m high.

But is this for that one financial year only, not every year?

MadinMarch · 16/11/2024 01:03

twilightermummy · 16/11/2024 00:52

How can they justify doubling it? It's disgusting. I understand why you're stressed. I think it would be helpful for you to try and take a break away from all of this, if even just for a few days. You could download a meditation app and just try and zone out of it for a small while. This must be absolutely wearing you down.

Managing agents charging extortionate fees should be the next financial scandal to be tackled! Lets hope it is, but I can't see that it will be...
Look into right to manage.

Monty27 · 16/11/2024 01:02

Residents/owners should team together and get legal advice

MadinMarch · 16/11/2024 01:00

Wibblywobblybobbly · 16/11/2024 00:22

This sounds so stressful. Have you looked into Right to Manage to get the management company out? I'd imagine a lot of other people in the block are feeling the same way right now so it might be a good time to try.

This!!!

twilightermummy · 16/11/2024 00:52

How can they justify doubling it? It's disgusting. I understand why you're stressed. I think it would be helpful for you to try and take a break away from all of this, if even just for a few days. You could download a meditation app and just try and zone out of it for a small while. This must be absolutely wearing you down.

ultraviolet4753 · 16/11/2024 00:45

Does your home insurance have legal cover maybe? Can hopefully get advice along with Shelter