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Original poster

Is pre teen a narcissist?

89 replies

Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 19:17

DS is 12.
Last Friday at school he got an internal isolation and detention for doing something disrespectful around remembrance day in class. I support the school, the sanction matches the action.

He got back from school on Friday and took himself to his bedroom. I tried talking to him about it and he just shouts and deflects it. Says what can I teach him about history.
He has sent himself to his room, I haven’t told him to or grounded him. I just want to talk about why he did it, the importance of Remembrance Day, then we can move on.
So since Friday, he has been out of his room only for school and for breakfast/dinner/lunch. Then straight back to his room after shouting at everyone about how we shout at him.
We haven’t shouted at him, but I have told him this isn’t going away. We will discuss it and life doesn’t move forward until we do.

This has been a week now. He is a very sociable boy. Talks to friends on the PlayStation (in the lounge), plays football out the front, goes fishing at weekends. So he’d rather give all that up, instead of just talking to me about the stupid thing he did. A whole week without interaction with his friends is unheard of.

So here’s the thing. DH thinks he is a narcissist.
Theres other traits that he has, doesn’t seem to have empathy, love bombs people to get what he wants, uses them. Lies ALOT, and won’t take responsibility for his actions, blames everyone else, always someone else’s fault.

I have always let things slide (I think because he’s love bombed me and convinced me he wasn’t wrong), but this I’m not letting slide because I feel very strongly about it and wonder if my husband is right. It is like he hates being wrong and so point blank won’t talk about it.

To add, a couple of days ago, when he was down for dinner, he’d given the dog a sausage I’d literally just got out the oven. I said not to as he was doing it because it’s so hot. Then comes, oh here you go, moaning at me again. Dog woffs the sausage down, only for a second later to vomit back up. As I was explaining it’s because it burnt her throat, he walks off back upstairs choosing to have no dinner that night. DH said see, he can’t admit he was wrong and you were right. He’s rather be hungry all night than say sorry.

I feel this week has really opened my eyes.
He can be such a lovely boy, can be fun to be around, but yes, also makes me (and his dad and sister) feel like we walk on eggshells alot of the time.

I guess im asking for advice on how to get him to talk to me and also if he does have narcassist traits, how we deal with that

OP posts:
PolkaDotOlgaDaPolga · 15/11/2024 23:50

@hairbearbunches I wanted my dad gone too as a teenager. We didn't get on at all . I'm not a narcissist (not v strategic or Machiavellian in my thinking) and I don't lack empathy . But I was a teenager who wanted to have a mother and no father. I thought I deserved better than a father who was critical at times . I wanted a more laid back quiet house not an intense environment of needy and volatile people with problems. I was a bratty teenager who wanted my own way. Then I grew up. Its normal.

Original poster
Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 23:45

Noseybookworm · 15/11/2024 23:38

Honestly, I think it's much more likely that he's embarrassed and ashamed about what happened and is fronting it out. These are big emotions to deal with when you're 12!

Having worked with teenagers with emotional and behavioural difficulties, I can tell you that the most important thing is forging a relationship of trust (which can be hard when they've dealt with a lot of rejection and punishment for their behaviour) can you approach him in a calm moment and say that you're not angry, you love him and want to understand how he is feeling? He needs a non judgemental approach if you want him to open up. He's been punished in school so it's dealt with. Please don't continue with this stand off, it helps nobody.

Ive done just that tonight. I sat on his bed and spoke to him. Got into bed with him cos I was cold and he let me give him a cuddle. Admittedly he didn’t really say a lot, but he did let me speak and he was listening.

OP posts:
PolkaDotOlgaDaPolga · 15/11/2024 23:42

BlueSilverCats · 15/11/2024 23:37

@VegTrug the issue is many children display narcissistic behaviours and then they grow out of them. It can be purely developmental. Or , sadly, what we see as narcissistic/selfish behaviours , are actually a result of abuse, trauma, neglect etc.

That's why you can't and shouldn't diagnose kids or write them off as narcissists at young ages.

Exactly! Even as parents we can't always be sure that something damaging hasn't happened to our kids. Maybe a stranger touched them innappropriately or they've been bullied or something? Best we can do is keep the lines of communicating open.

PolkaDotOlgaDaPolga · 15/11/2024 23:40

VegTrug · 15/11/2024 23:27

Actually yea they can, do your research. Many adult-diagnosed narcissists showed almost identical behaviour from mid childhood age

Show quote history

It's not that common though. They're NPD is the new I'm a little bit OCD. Just as ableist, because both conditions are painful and debilitating for sufferer and those around them too often.

Noseybookworm · 15/11/2024 23:38

Honestly, I think it's much more likely that he's embarrassed and ashamed about what happened and is fronting it out. These are big emotions to deal with when you're 12!

Having worked with teenagers with emotional and behavioural difficulties, I can tell you that the most important thing is forging a relationship of trust (which can be hard when they've dealt with a lot of rejection and punishment for their behaviour) can you approach him in a calm moment and say that you're not angry, you love him and want to understand how he is feeling? He needs a non judgemental approach if you want him to open up. He's been punished in school so it's dealt with. Please don't continue with this stand off, it helps nobody.

BlueSilverCats · 15/11/2024 23:37

@VegTrug the issue is many children display narcissistic behaviours and then they grow out of them. It can be purely developmental. Or , sadly, what we see as narcissistic/selfish behaviours , are actually a result of abuse, trauma, neglect etc.

That's why you can't and shouldn't diagnose kids or write them off as narcissists at young ages.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 15/11/2024 23:32

How exactly do you discipline that?

I mean more that if they'd just firmly dealt with it, it wouldn't have come to that. But for that you need a household where being rude and refusing to engage wit your parents isn't an option in the first place.

VegTrug · 15/11/2024 23:27

Lonelycrab · 15/11/2024 20:59

No.

Pre teens cannot be narcissists. Children can and often are narcissistic in behaviour. Only when they reach adulthood and haven’t grown out of these behaviours can they be diagnosed as suffering from NPD, but only a qualified psychiatrist can do this.

I do wish people would stop banding narcissism about on the internet the way they do these days.

Actually yea they can, do your research. Many adult-diagnosed narcissists showed almost identical behaviour from mid childhood age

VegTrug · 15/11/2024 23:26

hairbearbunches · 15/11/2024 20:58

OP, I recognise what you're describing in the child of some friends. We believe their kid is a narcissist too. The lack of empathy, the love bombing, the getting what they want and then moving onto the next thing has been quite something to watch. This kid is positively Machiavelian. He fits the description of Grandiose Narcissism in @Oopsalala's post.

You know your child better than anyone else, he may just need more guidance but what you're saying rings true for the kid we know and we came to the same conclusion. He has spent the last few years trying to get his father out of the nest so he can manipulate the mother easier. He's just succeeded in that particular goal.

How old is he, may I ask? Just curious

BlueSilverCats · 15/11/2024 22:38

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 15/11/2024 22:06

Honestly I think it was all simpler when most parents disciplined properly, you wouldn't get this shit of stuff dragging on for a week.

The kid is "voluntarily" skipping his dinner, time with friends, activities and time on his console.

How exactly do you discipline that?

solvendie · 15/11/2024 22:13

I don’t know what your DS did but I think a lot of 12 year olds have limited capacity to engage with Remembrance Day as it is so far removed from the context of their lives.

He was correctly punished at school and I think my approach at home would have been to convey disappointment and try and talk about what and why the incident happened to open up conversation, rather than make a judgement and punish.

Pre-teens and teens do silly things to show off. They can then find it difficult to feel and deal with their embarrassment and disappointment in themselves so they shut themselves off and lash out - verbally and behaviourally.

Grounding him without discussion cuts him off….i would try to focus on helping him to identify and acknowledge his shortcomings and feelings.

Its okay to make mistakes if you make amends.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 15/11/2024 22:06

Honestly I think it was all simpler when most parents disciplined properly, you wouldn't get this shit of stuff dragging on for a week.

AuroraBo · 15/11/2024 21:55

I feel quite sorry for your son

Differentstarts · 15/11/2024 21:42

The reason most psychiatrist will not diagnose personality disorders until a person is at least 18 is because this sort of stuff is normal behaviour in children and teens

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 15/11/2024 21:38

You need family therapy

Todaywasbetter · 15/11/2024 21:38

Please delete the word narcissist from your vocabulary when talking about a child.
We become what our parents tell us we are. be careful.

PolkaDotOlgaDaPolga · 15/11/2024 21:36

Lonelycrab · 15/11/2024 20:59

No.

Pre teens cannot be narcissists. Children can and often are narcissistic in behaviour. Only when they reach adulthood and haven’t grown out of these behaviours can they be diagnosed as suffering from NPD, but only a qualified psychiatrist can do this.

I do wish people would stop banding narcissism about on the internet the way they do these days.

As someone with a diagnosed and treated for PD, I couldn't agree more with this. Why is it seem as offensive to claim being a bit OCD because somebody liked things in order but it's ok for people to throw around the Narc label at someone who is healthy but self centered? People forget that PDs are debilitating mental health conditions!

girlofsandwich · 15/11/2024 21:31

Compash · 15/11/2024 20:31

The feeling I'm getting is that he can't handle shame. Fair enough, it's a big emotion at that age! Being caught out or accused, he has to double down because the feelings of being wrong or bad or embarrassed are so unbearable to his sense of self.

I guess the lesson he needs is that, if you do something wrong, you can learn and come back from it, it needn't destroy or diminish you as a person. Maybe try to put some power back into his hands by asking what he thinks he did wrong, and how he should handle this or make amends? So he feels he has some control over his morals and actions. And instead of him having mortification for himself, guide it towards empathy for others.

But I like how you stood by the school's punishment, that's strong parenting. It's a chance to teach him that things do go wrong sometimes but it's how we take ownership that 's important. Good luck!

Great post! Shame is a big emotion at any age and that's really good advice on how to handle it as he grows.

Original poster
Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 21:27

Toddlertantrums222 · 15/11/2024 21:21

Is your DH his biological dad?

Yes

OP posts:
Original poster
Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 21:27

Looneymahooney · 15/11/2024 21:15

Agree with this, great advice for OP.

I have done workshops around shame, as it's related to my job role. It's such a huge influence on our behaviour and actions. I would suggest looking into some Shame Training classes. They really are excellent at helping us understand ourselves and others better!

Show quote history

Brilliant, I’ll look into this, thank you

OP posts:
awayforxmas · 15/11/2024 21:26

Jesus Christ he just sounds like a kid

Original poster
Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 21:22

stargazerlil · 15/11/2024 21:04

Sounds like you’re letting the service chat you want to have drag on and on. Why? If it has to be spoke about then tell him to sit down and talk to him about it. He’s not an adult he’s not allowed to decide if he wants to talk about it or not. You make him. But maybe your letting it drag on because you don’t actual know what to say to him, so get your head around that and then sit him down and say it. He needs to see you being a sensible responsible calm adult not someone who constantly threatens a conversation that never happens, this really immature of you. And no he doesn’t sound like a narc, he sounds like a kid who gets away with it because you let him. And hurting the dog did no one go crazy over that, at him, id be furious if that was my pet. He’d have got a proper telling off.

He did get a proper telling off. But as usual said I’m over reacting. I broke open a sausage, showed him the steam coming out, he just walked back upstairs rather than say sorry or acknowledge what he did was wrong

OP posts:
Toddlertantrums222 · 15/11/2024 21:21

Is your DH his biological dad?

Original poster
Preteenstruggle · 15/11/2024 21:16

PureBoggin · 15/11/2024 21:04

@Preteenstruggle stop letting him isolate himself. Sit him down and tell him that you WILL be discussing what happened. That it's important to acknowledge our mistakes and remedy them. But they don't define us. Tell him about a time that you got into big trouble as a child and how you felt. Tell him how much you love him and that won't change even if and when he gets things wrong. It sounds like he really struggles with shame.

Thank you. That’s what we’ve been sitting here saying. It’s not the not action of not talking after he does something wrong we should be focusing on, it’s the shame that he feels after which is what he can’t cope with.

OP posts:
Looneymahooney · 15/11/2024 21:15

Compash · 15/11/2024 20:31

The feeling I'm getting is that he can't handle shame. Fair enough, it's a big emotion at that age! Being caught out or accused, he has to double down because the feelings of being wrong or bad or embarrassed are so unbearable to his sense of self.

I guess the lesson he needs is that, if you do something wrong, you can learn and come back from it, it needn't destroy or diminish you as a person. Maybe try to put some power back into his hands by asking what he thinks he did wrong, and how he should handle this or make amends? So he feels he has some control over his morals and actions. And instead of him having mortification for himself, guide it towards empathy for others.

But I like how you stood by the school's punishment, that's strong parenting. It's a chance to teach him that things do go wrong sometimes but it's how we take ownership that 's important. Good luck!

Agree with this, great advice for OP.

I have done workshops around shame, as it's related to my job role. It's such a huge influence on our behaviour and actions. I would suggest looking into some Shame Training classes. They really are excellent at helping us understand ourselves and others better!

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