To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

Earlier this month I completed 20 years of continuous service in the public sector and didn’t even get a certificate printed off to commemorate it! When my Dad completed 20 years service in the private sector he had a Swiss watch with an engraving, personalised bottle of champagne and a £1000 bonus back in 1992 and a framed photo of him with a Director.

I was too late for a final salary pension, and in the last decade my salary has lost 30% of its value because of pay freezes and below inflation pay rises.

I have also seen endless restructuring and job losses that means that we are all working far harder as there simply are not enough staff for the work we do!

Colleagues are leaving in droves to the private sector, for job security and better pay! Although they may receive a slightly smaller percentage of employer’s pension contributions, it’s still more money in their pension pot than a higher percentage of employers contributions on a smaller salary.

I also wonder why people thing that tax payers don’t pay for private sector pensions, obviously we do as we buy their products or services… the money for all wages and pensions come from the public… it’s just that in the public sector we put our heart and souls into the public good rather than to pay for shareholders to buy apartments in Monaco to avoid paying UK tax!

Funny how some on the right tried to keep down wages and partly blamed increases on inflation.... yet the Tories, then Labour settled public sector strikes but inflation continues to fall......

How come your economic theories don't apply to Director pay? which has outstripped productivity by many multiples.... yet paying more to a Carer or a Teacher would be "inflationary

@Alexandra2001 did you mean to quote someone else? Your comments are completely nonsensical as a response to mine. You think I support the Tories?! 🤣🤦🏻‍♀️

I work for the public sector, and 15% of my monthly wage goes towards my pension, so I dont know where you get your information from. My pension isnt worth as much s you probally think it is. Also by the way, I havent had a pay riase for 5 years, my wages have been frozen but my pension contributions have gone up. I had a 5.5 % pay raise this months for the forst time in about 5 years

So what you want is for people to give up their pensions, stay on low pay and wait for the magical productivity genie to arrive?

No. What is that now, the third time that you've made up something and attempted to attribute it to me when it is nothing even vaguely resembling what I've said?

I said your suggestion to increase public sector salaries significantly immediately and look at changing pensions subsequently at a later date was ridiculous because there is no way to fund that. Both obviously need to happen simultaneously but, as I pointed out, before it is possible to raise salaries significantly in both the public and private sector - which desperately needs to happen after 15 years of stagnation - significant reforms are required to our economic and tax models to increase productivity otherwise the payrises would not raise living standards and would instead simply drive further inflation cancelling them out.

No they're not though! Maybe Senior Civil Service are doing OK but I had 43 years contributions and could never live on my pension and will never achieve a full state pension because we were automatically opted out so receive less that non Civil Service.

We haven't had it removed, but like most other benefits it's now means tested

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs

And apparently forgotten in all this is that public sector workers are also paying tax and national insurance

In what way?

sorry if this point has been made but I’ve not read everything.

What people (OP) needs to realise is that current contributions are not paying for current workers future pensions. They are paying for the high cost pensions of current pensioners while trying to ensure the funds will be enough for future retirees.

Employers contributions rise every few years while benefits reduce. I’ve worked public sector for 24 years (NHS and education). When I first started drs costs were 7% (it might even have been 4% and rose shortly after I started). The increase in costs it not because our pension value has increased.

Ritasueandbobtoo9, I hope you're not a nurse or that's me gone !!!! x

To be blunt, you are ill informed.

https://iea.org.uk/the-hidden-perks-enjoyed-by-the-public-sector/#:~:text=Final%20salary%2C%20defined%2Dbenefit%20pension,the%20private%20sector%20(8%25).

I’m really confused by professional people saying that they only have 120k in their dc pension pot at retirement age. I am a teacher and have 30 years in the pension fund so have a so -called gold-plated pension but I pay 1000s a year into that fund (maybe 6k a year).

In my early career I was stupidly advised to opt out of the fund and take a private dc pension instead which I did for 3 years. Decades later the compound interest means I have a 60k dc pot even though I only paid in for 3 years. Surely if I’d paid in for 30 years I would have at least 600k. Am I just being thick or are some people only making tiny monthly pension payments?
By the way, I had to opt out of the teachers’ fund for a few years when I took mat leave( 3 months max mostly on tiny pay back in those days) so my pension could be better than it is. I am nearly 60 and still going strong but teaching is an exhausting job so not sure 67 is a realistic retirement age.
As an example of the perks in the public sector, as recognition for my 30 years in the same local authority a few years ago I was awarded….. a BADGE! A fucking badge!

I’ve been in public sector for 13 years, got two degrees, I’m still on less than 30k and my salary based on inflation should be 20% higher than what it is but due to 4 years of pay freeze or 1-2% increases it’s technically gone backwards. My pension contribution is 6.5%, my pension is career average, not final salary. Trust me we don’t slave away in low pay jobs on unsocial hours for the pension. I’m yet to work out why it is most people stay

Absolutely, for example the pension fund I’m in has performed so well recently the employer contribution is reduced from about 19% to 7% for 2 years but we don’t see any of that it goes as a saving.

Really ask the pensioners that have lost it is hat do need it that!

You are unreasonable. I’m an experienced honours degree educated nurse, and I’ve been putting into my nhs pension since I was 20. I’ve put my blood, sweat and tears into my career. Sometimes at the expense of my mental health. I didn’t get into nursing for money, and we haven’t had a pay rise in line with inflation for over a decade so please can I collect my pension at 69 or whenever I’m allowed. Thanks so much.

This is a debate about nothing as you have your facts wrong OP @Monwmum I work in the public sector, know many others who do and final salary pensions were scrapped YEARS ago. Where are you getting your intel from?? 😂

Snag is that there appears to be no
measure of productivity in the public sector. Such as in planning, statutory targets are missed by a mile. Moreover, workers talk of their ‘to do’ lists as though they are a sign of how busy they are. When I worked in the private sector (with a money purchase pension) we hadn’t time for a ‘to do’ list because we had the work to do.
And now they want to work a four day week maintaining present (abysmal) productivity levels, so, apart from the routine POETS day exodus from County Hall, we all now really do know that they’ve been slacking all week.

Yes, I've heard this often in teaching. Any job where burnout is more likely will naturally have a workforce consisting of many who cannot wait to retire. It's often said among teachers that we wish our lives away counting down the weeks until the next school holiday. If workload doesn't improve, I'll sure I'll be counting down the years left until retirement too.

You sound like you believe public sector employees should work for free to save us money. If you want doctors, ruses, teachers, police, refuse collectors etc, please accept that they have to be paid for just like employees in any sector.

Goodness me, if I had a pound for every time someone told me they stay [in teaching] for the pension and the holidays (often for childcare purposes).

I think it would be a disaster for recruitment and more so retention in teaching.

I don’t know where you’re getting your information from but DH and I are both public sector and we were on pay freezes for 11 of the last 15 years and then in the last 4 years we have had yearly non-consolidated raises of 1-2%. Far far lower than private sector, and our wages are now about 50% of the equivalent roles in the private sector. So, no, public sector jobs are not paid equally to private sector, but also, I don’t know anyone on a final salary pension anymore apart from my brother who is in the private sector! We don’t even get a more generous annual leave policy anymore as I have been applying for other jobs and noticed that my 30 days pro rata is now the norm in private sector jobs too. The only thing that IS still keeping me in the public sector is the flexible working and also to some degree the sick leave allowance as I have a long term health condition that requires regular chemotherapy so I do have to take some time off sick every few months following treatment.

How can it be tax payers money per se when public sector workers contribute 14% of salary and employer also makes a contribution? The money paid in is reported to cover cost of paying existing pensioners.
If you feel you’re losing out, I suggest you join the public sector of which many of these professions are in great demand.