To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

I am a planning lawyer working in local government. I’ve worked in both the public and private sectors and work just as hard as I did in the private sector. In fact, I feel like I have to work harder because we don’t have the admin or technical support. At planning inquiries it is often just me against legal teams of two or three lawyers who have access to technical and admin support.

I manage two entirely separate teams and am still expected to maintain my own caseload (so effectively 3 jobs). I am paid less than £50k as a qualified solicitor and the head of the team. The solicitors on my team are paid around £43k. We could all earn at least double in the private sector and I am seriously considering this as an option.

We can’t recruit (that’s when we have any money available to fund posts). People just cannot justify the drop in salary from private practice. All of our neighbouring authorities are in the same position.

I despair when I see posts like this because my team and I are already so demoralised and we work so hard to try and make a difference to the lives of our residents. The fact of the matter is that if conditions erode any further, we won’t be able to function as an authority because we will likely have no staff.

What more do people want from us?

Actually husband didn't have a payrise for good 7 years (public service) and pays something like 19-20% from his salary into the 'gold plated' pension. Why should he reduce pension if he paid that much into it?

I get paid significantly less as a public sector surveyor than I would in private practice. I do it for the flexibility and pension!

Substitute public sector for public service. Many public sector workers give, day after day, public service. That's what your tax money pays for. It pays for teachers, doctors and nurses, it pays for the people who keep children safe, who stand outside in the dark at night,reaching out to young people, it pays for the people who try to house the homeless, who give or try to give some hope to the lonely, the sick, the vulnerable, the frightened and the desperate. And the problem with their pension is?

YABU
The NHS pension was in excess eg workers paid in more than was taken out via pension pay outs. Instead of paying out dividends as per the contract, the then government (May I think, maybe Boris) ripped the contract up and made everyone contribute yet more.

since I’ve been in the pension scheme it has been changed three times, each time getting worse. It’s now lifetime contribution- no final year pension, your overtime isn’t added to the pot and my contributions have risen to double figures. At the same time my pay was frozen, on a lot of responsibility, being paid at least 10k less than private sector jobs.

so honestly it’s not the huge perk you think it is. Additionally it’s funded by the existing workers. Can’t speak for the other public sectors. If we all quit the NHS for private jobs or service industry- then what?

Indeed and you can take this argument a step further too. 30 years ago, a DS could pretty much buy a family home on one wage in almost every town in the country. Now they cannot and this is in no small part due to the obscene wages at the top end of the private sector and the extreme wealth that comes with it (and causes hyperinflation in the housing market for example).

A DS today is not as well off as a DS 30 years ago so why should they be punished by losing their pension just because those in the private sector have fared even worse?

Instead of fighting over the scraps, we need more union friendly labour laws, a much higher minimum wage and a wealth tax. Let's talk about pulling each other up, not about how we can let employers take the piss more than they already do.

At 63 with a 30 year public sector career behind you I'd be astounded if you had anything other than a very high pension considering your salary level.

I don't agree with you. The private sector taking the piss and underpaying people is not an argument for the public sector to do the same.

It's actually really important for the public sector to set a benchmark so that the private sector cannot take the piss any more than they already do. Most people who argue against public sector pay in the political sphere are lobbyists for the private sector who want to drive wages and conditions down further for everyone.

Lets take a police officer. Max pay after 7 years, around £48k. A DS around £53k. £53K to deal with the worst of society, carry incredible risk and work unsociable hours. A DS is essentially a manager dealing with high level crime, rapes, murders, has to go out and see dead bodies and gets paid £53k a year. A lidl manager gets up to £59k a year.....

There needs to be some perks to working in the public sector, because the pay is certainly not one of them!

@Monwmum you do realise that the old final salary scheme you are probably referring closed a number of years ago and everyone is in career average schemes.

The schemes are self funded in that the current workers pay the retired workers. We don’t get to chose Investment strategies.

The more we earn the higher we contribute eg 7% up to 34k up to just over 11%

Or are you actually referring to the state pension?

I work for a local authority and we aren’t even allowed to accept a tin of biscuits at Christmas anymore, let us keep our pensions at least 😂

Why are you not advocating a rise in private sector pensions then instead of advocating making people poorer?

You misunderstand how many of these pensions work. The contributions being made today are paying the pensions of those already retired. We are paying, as public sector employees, into a "promise " scheme for the future. They are unfunded schemes

Hahahahaha, now I know you are obviously deluded!! Maybe I could show you my pension forecast? I think you’d be surprised.

edited to add: I’m now 63 and still working full time. Go figure.

And you'll be complaining about inheritance tax and VAT on private schools with your next breath!

Yeah, a race to the bottom is a great idea for working people. Are you a bot?

Also remember that civil servants also make pension contributions of between 4.6% and 8% as part of being in the pension scheme. It's still excellent value but important to bear in mind the full picture.

I don't know about other industries but the Civil Service pay software engineers drastically below private sector levels. Or any tech role, not just engineering. A quick skim over their job board shows me that the Head of IT at the Cabinet Office earns less than a junior I just placed (and not even at a FAANG).

Ok, if we peg public sector wage growth to private sector wage growth for the last 20 years. Public sector wage growth hasn't regularly tracked above private sector wage growth since the early days of austerity.

Like for everyone, public sector workers will take a job based on the full package. In the private sector that can be much more varied - I've had healthcare, offers of company cars, flexibility, and other aspects as part of my employment package. I've always negotiated my pension on taking a job as well as the other benefits.

For the public sector, the benefits are pretty thin on the ground apart from a very good pension and the potential for flexibility, depending on the sector and role. If you slash part of it, you'll need to make it up somewhere else or accept that you will get much less able people willing to do the jobs.

This simply isn't the case anymore. After years of frozen pay or meagre 1 or 2% pay increases in much of the private sector versus mainly regular inflation based pay increases in the public sector, this gap has been reduced if not closed completely.

I’ve worked in the public sector for years. My pay increases have been few and far between and they haven’t come close to keeping pace with inflation. I must be working for the wrong organisation.

They they’ll need to increase wages. My husband makes just a little more than minimum wage, the pension is part of the package.

It's a very complex issue but does need to be looked at. The future pension liabilities are high. The IFS research indicates that low public sector earners opt out because they can't afford the personal contribution required. Some public sector workers may prefer to have a bigger salary now (due to housing/other costs). Moving between sectors can also be challenging

@Monwmum you said: "However, public sector pensions are still getting contributions of the high 20% figures while private sector pensions range from 4% -10%."

I posted this on another thread last week, but I think it bears repeating as so many people don't understand how public sector pensions work (including lots of PS workers, and myself until quite recently!)

You cannot compare the high 20% employee contributions in the public sector to the 3-10% contributions in the private sector as they are going towards different things. Private sector contributions go directly into your pension 'pot' which is invested in the stock market. Individuals in public sector schemes don't have a pension pot.

The civil service contribution of 27% is going into the overall running of the entire scheme. It has no bearing on what the retiree ends up getting because they receive a career average (not final salary) based on set rates when they retire.

For example, on the 'Alpha' scheme, which all new civil servants join, you will have somewhere between 4.5-7.5% of your monthly salary taken out as a pension contribution. This contribution is used to purchase 2.32% of your salary every year and this accrues until you take your pension.

Let's say you earn £24k (£2k per month) and your contribution rate is 5% – that 5% (£100) buys you £46.40 (2.32% of your £2k salary) for your pension, or £556.80 over a year. If you work there for 20 years (assuming no pay rises/inflation for simplicity) you will have built up an annual pension of £11,136 (£556.80 x 20) which is paid out of the money built up by the employer contributions (27% in the civil service).

It is quite confusing as the media (Telegraph, I'm looking at you) conflate the public sector employer contribution and private sector contributions all the time - But they are chalk and cheese.

However, it is true to say the accrual rate is good and public sector pensions overall are good. They should be too, because the majority of public sector works earn well below what they could earn in the private sector, and the pension is recompense for that.

I'm public sector, moved across from private sector, as it was better paid!

The pay is about 3k per annum more. I don't get a bonus or Christmas party etc. However my bonus was never more than 2.5k. I have flexible working, homeworking and less stress (no billing targets or timesheets).

I personally can't justify the public sector pensions.

There isn't the scope to work up the ladder the same as private, but I have a better work life balance, and I'm past caring.

Yet we expect the absolute very best out of public services. How the general public expects the very best candidates when they can earn 5 times that in the private sector, is beyond me. You’re recruiting someone using it as a stepping stone to move into a sector that values the ‘industry’ of the job and the prestige/ reputation, or someone who wants to go into politics.