To think public sector pensions should be slashed?

😕 yes that makes sense.

Shift work definitely. Husband worked 999 calls, it called for 2 early shift (7am-3pm), 2 lates (3pm-11pm) and 2 nights (11pm-7am).
Previously done five nights shift in a row. Ages the body, sleep all over the place etc. Also imagine racing 100mph whilst your body is wanting to sleep. The cortisol/adrenalyn stays in your body for hours.

If this is me you’re referring to, you are very wrong. But keep on believing it, if that’s what you need to believe. My colleague is 65 and single. Been in the CS longer than me, same low grade, still working full time.

"Full pension" isn't 100pc of salary. It's probably an outdated term but I think there used to be a cap of 2/3rds salary and that was full pension. Whether that was legislation, tax or just the standard for most scheme rules I can't remember.

Well it will be even cheaper as you won't have a workforce to pay anymore.. at that point they'll have emigrated and earn more than they do now. We're both public sector and under paid. My dh massively so. The stability and pension appeal whilst we bring up 3 young dc. Also being able to be part time. In different circumstances I would have considered emigrating and my dh regularly thinks about the private sector. Public sector has pension, good holidays and often stability. Without these people would leave

Oh I fully agree with that. But PP seemed to be saying her pension isn't generous, when it likely is. Just one part of a whole package, but a good part of it.

I think it is you who is missing the point. When wages for public sector jobs are calculated independently, they are much lower than the equivalent comparators in the private sector to adjust for the fact that the public sector worker is accruing a good pension at the same time. So each year a civil servant works, they are paid with both their actual salary now and an accrued pension later - and the total is set to represent the lower end of the equivalent private sector remuneration..

it makes no more sense to suggest cutting public sector pensions than it does to cut public sector salaries - they are both something that is earned for the job, and just because the pension is paid out years later, it’s already been earned so can’t be taken away retrospectively.

as people have tried to explain, the pensions are higher then the equivalent private sector pensions BECAUSE the salary part of the package is lower than the private sector salary. This isn’t guesswork, there are complex economic calculations underlying public sector salary levels.

You can’t take away the pensions already earned.

and if you reduce pensions going forward, salaries will have to rise to adjust for this.

public sector workers are no different to private sector workers who give up some of their salary voluntarily to have a bigger pension - the difference is they didn’t actively choose to do it, it’s just part of the pay deal.

Or those roles (nursing, police, prison officers...) where dealing with violence and the potential for serious injury is a routine part of your job.

Good thing that final salary pensions have been phased out in the public sector then, eh?

The OP already explained FSP are unaffordable in the private sector that has to compete in a global market place. Even in the recent Labour budget the NI increases were added to the private sector but NHS etc were excused these increases, this in turn will reduce further private sector pay.
The reality is that FSP are unaffordable in the public sector, many councils, for example, pay 20%+ of their budget to their pensioners instead of into services which is where the money is really needed.

Why are people so insistent on making public service workers miserable? You do realise that we pay taxes? That we pay for our pensions? That we work hard? Were not fucking free loaders living off private sector workers tax contributions?

r

it's also a false economy as the knowledge gap is then plugged through private consultants. which costs more in capital and operational terms, than recruiting and having that talent as a permanent part of your team.

good quality candidates and graduates are specifically creamed off by private firms, as they are then leased to the civil service through contract work, but at a much higher cost, and without the benefit of being able to retain that talent and grow your own in-house knowledge.

ian dunt's book on westminster covers this and the problems it causes. like pfi it's short term thinking to make numbers work on a spreadsheet in the short term, but without looking at the overall long term impact.

Fast Stream takes you to G7 upon successful completion of the scheme. Whitehall departments also have rapid promotion for HEOs. Not sure how it works outside of Whitehall but you can advance quickly inside, in policy. Not Ops.

i'm guessing something involving night shift work. there have been studies on it. there was a big one in america on nurses doing night shifts, mostly women, who were tracked for about 20 years. the risk of early death was noticeably higher in those who did night shifts, and the risk increased the longer they did the shifts.

Fast Stream (and HEO) pay might look attractive but where is the progression? There will be long term staff on that wage and lower. Deputy Directors - Senior Civil Servants start on £76k and there aren't that many posts above that.

Couple of points. One, there's been a significant real-term decrease in civil servants' pay. Twenty years ago, a Grade 7 civil servant earned about £45,000, which is worth about £75k in real terms today. This is for the first level of management. Now, it's about £57,000. Also, the benefits of the civil service have either been cut back - i.e. pensions or the private sector has caught up to a significant extent such as WFH. This is a false economy - civil servants collectively oversee, and advise on, the expenditure of public funds. Attracting a less competent workforce will result in worse spending decisions as well as the need to spend £££ on private consultants to plug capability gaps. At more senior levels of the civil service, the pay gap between the public sector and private sector is very significant, and turnover has increased significantly.

You should get your son to read up on Alpha. He isn’t getting a 24% contribution to his pension at all. His pension will accrue at 2.32% of his salary per year, for as long as he is a member of Alpha.

Anything that does any significant amount of night shifts really, but especially if they swap back and forth regularly.

but people working for low salaries in the private sector have the option to move to other firms to earn more money. or to work their way up. public sector workers don't have the same mobility and remuneration options - and they know this, which is why the pension has been and remains an important recruitment and retention tool.

the pp earlier in this thread who is a public sector planning lawyer is a great example. c50k i think? she could earn double that doing the same job in private practice. who does it benefit if there are no qualified or experienced lawyers left to do her job? people might not think it's important, until a housing developer wants to build on a flood plain upstream from them...

There is an assumption that the private sector is all rosey. My DH previously worked in a private sector role where there were no pay increases for years, in fact he had pay cuts. Yes, 10% were taken off all salaries on a couple of occasions.

@ThisOldThang

I've worked in the public sector for 35 years, I don't remember anyone working for 50 years to get a 'full pension "
A lot of the public sector jobs would be unsuitable for people working until they are 70

Public sector pensions needs to be moved to a defined contribution system so there is a “pot” of money sitting there rather then them being the giant Ponzi scheme that they are now. The current model is unsustainable.

Yikes really? What job is it that slashes your life expectancy?

I work in public sector (EA DEFRA group) and since 2010 we've had frozen pay for several years and only recently received a few 1% or 2% increases. Last year we did get a better increase but we are way down on what we would have got if our wages had gone up with inflation.
Also all the final salary pensions are gone. We are on average salary type scheme now. We are mostly low paid 20-35K with only a small proportion on 40-50K.

Think staff would leave in droves if pension was cut any further. We don't get bonuses etc. and earn way lower than in private sector.

I went from the senior civil service to the private sector. The salary increase was in line with the above, worse pension obviously but better other benefits. The non-financial benefits included much more straightforward and often much easier work, less of it, and much less pressure and stress.